May Godden and Celia Piggott (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: WH-95-200AT002

* CCINTB Transcript ID: 95-205-5a-z

* Tapes: WH-95-200OT002

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-103

* Length: 0:42:01

* Harrow, Middlesex, 25 July 1995: Valentina Bold interviews May Godden and Celia Piggott

* Transcribed by Joan Simpson/Standardised by Richard Rushton

*MG=May Godden, CP=Celia Piggott, HE=Helen (carer), OP=Other person, VB=Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second interview of two with May Godden and Celia Piggott at Westminster House Nursing Home; Sound Quality: Fair

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[VB tape introduction]

[conversation in background between VB and carer about arrangements for interview]

VB: I was wondering if I could ask you a few more questions about going to the 00:01:00cinema. Your memories of cinemas. I'll come over here maybe. Erm, I was wondering if I could ask you a few more questions. Remember we were talking about, erm, going to the cinema. In the thirties.

MG: I didn't go to the cinemas much.

VB: No.

MG: Didn't fancy them. I don't like them particularly now.

VB: Right.

MG: It's years since I went to one. [inaudible; May?].

VB: Yeah. Well it's years ago I was wanting to ask about.

MG: Years ago when I went last.

CP: Used to go every week. [laughs] I did.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause I was interested when we were talking before, you were telling me about some of the stars like Bette Davis, and--

CP: Yes, yes.

VB: Stars like that. 'Cause you were saying--

CP: Get some of the old films on here, don't we?

MG: Well I don't bother to look at them. I'm more interested in the sports programmes.

VB: Oh.

MG: I'm not interested in all this rubbish they put on. Doesn't appeal to me.

VB: Do you think the films from way back were better than the ones--

MG: Much.

VB: Much better. Yeah.

MG: And the stories were much nicer.

VB: Yeah.

CP: We were more interested, I suppose, in more...

MG: More real. Weren't they, somehow?

VB: That's interesting. When you say they were more real. Were they more believable?

MG: The one I used to like very much indeed was Doctor Finlay's Casebook [referring to a television series from the 1960s].

CP: Yes.

MG: Do you remember?

CP: Yes, yes.

MG: I used to like that very much. Especially Dr Cameron. He was awfully good. And Janet.

VB: Mhm.

MG: And one day, some years ago, I went on a holiday coach tour to Scotland. We went through the town where Arden House was. And I bought a picture of Arden House, with Doctor Finlay and Doctor Cameron.

VB: Ah.

MG: A picture postcard.

VB: I'm interested you say that because erm, one of the things I brought with me was a couple of erm, film books.

MG: They've put it on again, I believe.

VB: Yeah.

MG: A little while ago. Some years ago probably.

VB: Yeah.

MG: And it wasn't the same. It wasn't half as nice. And so I didn't bother to look at it after the first time.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause, erm, I brought along a couple of books of some of the stars of the thirties that we were talking about. I thought you might be interested to have a look. I don't know if you'd like to see this one. Would you mind if I turned the TV down a wee bit?

CP: No, I don't mind.

VB: It's just cause of the tape.

CP: Yes.

VB: If I can figure out [laughs] how to do it. That's great. That's it.

MG: [If you press the brown part?], that stops it.

VB: Right. This bit here?

MG: That's it.

VB: That's great. These are quite heavy actually. [inaudible]. 'Cause you were 00:04:00telling me a bit about stars like Jessie Matthews.

MG: No. She was talking, I told you, yes I told you about, she lived in Ruislip.

VB: That's right. Yes.

MG: That's right. And her ashes are in Ruislip churchyard.

VB: Ah!

MG: They are in the small garden which is reserved for-- cremation graves.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Just a little square. And a small tablet in the ground.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Just a little square.

VB: Yeah.

MG: And I can't remember who it was. One of the rose growers.

VB: Mhm.

MG: Gave seventy-four roses [inaudible; rustling]. And they were planted round that garden.

VB: Yeah.

MG: All the way round it.

VB: That's lovely.

MG: And you'll see a plaque on the wall of the parish hall which tells you Jessie Matthews's birthday.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Do you think Jessie Matthews's films were good? Did you enjoy them?

CP: Yes.

MG: I think she went into the hospital. Erm, over. [inaudible], actor's, actor's hospital. It's still there. On the left hand side as you come round the corner. And she was ill in there. But I think she died in hospital. I'm not sure about that but...

VB: 'Cause I mean, some of the stars we were talking about obviously come up in these books. I mean here, I think it's Greta Garbo.

CP: Oh yes.

VB: Did you like her?

CP: She's all right. She was all right. Wasn't my favourite, she wasn't.

MG: Who was that?

VB: Greta Garbo.

MG: No, I didn't, I only saw her once.

CP: Yeah.

MG: She wanted to be alone, didn't she?

CP: Yes. [laughs]

VB: Yeah.

MG: So I didn't bother with her then.

VB: [laughs] Did you not make much of her?

MG: No, I didn't bother too much of her.

VB: Erm, there's a bit here about the making of the pictures. Were you interested in the technical side of things or was it more the films?

MG: Oh no. No. My husband wanted to see something so we went and saw it. We didn't go very often. He wasn't all that keen. Mostly he liked the war films.

VB: Mhm. What about stars like Jeanette MacDonald? Was she someone you--

MG: I used to like her. Who did she used to sing with?

CP: Nelson Eddy. Nelson Eddy.

MG: Nelson Eddy. They used to sing the most beautiful songs, didn't they?

CP: That's right. Yes.

MG: Beautiful. Lovely.

CP: Yes. She had a lovely voice, didn't she?

MG: Both of them had.

VB: So there's a rather, you're just looking at a picture of her here. With Maurice Chevalier.

CP: Oh yes. Yes, she was lovely. She was lovely. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: Did you like the singing films? The--

MG: Pardon?

VB: Did you like the musicals?

MG: Yes. Yes. They were all right. I used to like them. We went once or twice to town to see one or two of the big shows.

CP: 'Course we saw the silent films.

VB: Of course.

MG: Oh I remember the silent ones.

CP: Yes. They were just coming out, the erm, talking ones when I--

MG: I was nearly twenty-three the first, before I ever went to a film.

CP: Mhm.

VB: Really?

MG: I was married then. My brother was in the navy and he was home on leave and there was one that he thought we would like. And my husband and I and my brother went to see it.

VB: Mhm.

MG: And there was no talking you know. It was a silent film as you say. And I wasn't very smitten. So, we didn't go any more.

CP: No, we thought it was a bit strange, didn't we?

MG: Yes.

CP: At first. [laughs] Talking films.

MG: 'Course we hadn't got any television then.

CP: No.

MG: We hadn't even got the radio then. [pause 3 seconds]

CP: Loretta Young.

VB: Ah! Did you like Loretta Young?

CP: Yes, yes.

VB: 'Cause I was interested in that. Were there particular qualities or things about stars that you liked? I mean, say someone like Bette Davis. What was it that appealed to you about Bette Davis?

CP: Oh I don't know. She was, she was very nice wasn't she?

VB: I mean there are some more here, stars here like Claudette Colbert. Stars like Claudette Colbert.

CP: I don't remember her.

MG: What was her name?

VB: Claudette Colbert.

MG: No, I don't remember her.

CP: I remember her. Yes, I remember her.

MG: You probably went more often than we did.

CP: I used to go quite a bit.

MG: Did you? Ah, well we didn't, you see.

VB: Yeah. Did you think she was good? Was she one that you liked?

CP: Oh yes. They were all very nice, you know.

VB: Yeah.

CP: I liked them all.

VB: That's interesting. I mean, did you find that most of the films then, you enjoyed?

CP: Yes. Yes.

VB: Yeah. No one that you--

CP: I never went to see comedies much. I didn't care for comedies. I used to like the drama. [laughs]

VB: Did you like something that had a bit of a plot to it?

CP: Yes. Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

MG: I don't think I went to them enough to have any choice really.

VB: Yeah. Yeah. But you were saying you think the stories then were better.

MG: Pardon?

VB: You were saying the stories in the films then were better than the ones now.

MG: Well what I saw I enjoyed. But I mean, erm--

VB: Yeah.

MG: I probably liked them. But we weren't all that bothered about going to them.

VB: Yeah. So it wasn't something special?MG: No. Well I was twenty-four when my baby was born. Well you hadn't got time then. That was in 1922, '23. And in 1926 we moved out to a house in [Greenford?], which was country then. [Proper?] country. And then we had a new garden and new house and so, that was sufficient.

VB: So you had enough to be going on with.

MG: Yes. Yes.

VB: Yeah.

MG: We didn't even have any buses then. It was after we mov--, about 1926, '27 I think, when they started a [inaudible] bus--

VB: Mhm.

MG: That went through.

VB: 'Cause it, it sounds from what I've heard as if London was very different in the thirties.

MG: Well, I think we enjoyed life better. Now it's all noise. All noise, isn't it?

CP: Yeah. I don't know much about films now. I never go.

VB: No.

MG: They think the more noise you can make, the better they like it.

VB: Mhm.

CP: Yeah.

VB: Did you have any favourites amongst the male stars? I mean, I see you've got Tyrone Power there. Was he someone you liked?

CP: Handsome, isn't he? [laughs]

VB: Certainly is.

CP: I was looking at Ray Milland. You don't remember, you don't know him do you?

VB: Ray Milland.

MG: Ray Milland. Oh yes. Yes, I do remember him. I liked him, yes. I remember 00:12:00seeing him once in film, which was quite nice.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Nice story to it. But I can't remember who the girl was.

VB: What was it about Ray Milland that you found, erm you know, that you liked about him.

MG: I don't know. Well he was a gentleman sort of.

CP: Well his acting, I think.

MG: He acted very well.

CP: They used to act very well. [pause 6 seconds] Bette Davis. [laughs]

VB: Ah. It's a lovely picture of her that, isn't it? She's beautiful.

MG: Who is it?

VB: Bette Davis.

MG: Betty Grable.

VB: Bette Davis. Yeah.

CP: Do you remember her?

MG: I remember, yes, I remember her. But I wouldn't recognise the pictures now I don't think.

CP: Well, I just saw Bette Davis, you see.

MG: Yes.

VB: There's one here of Ginger Rogers.

MG: Ah. Now I do remember her and Fred Astaire. I remember we went to the Playhouse in Greenford when that was opened. That was new. We went to them in [pause 2 seconds] a dancing thing. That was quite nice. I enjoyed that. Can't remember what it was now. What the name of it was but--

CP: Yeah. And Astaire, with Astaire.

MG: Yeah. Fred Astaire. I liked their dancing.

CP: Yes.

MG: They danced beautifully together.

CP: She was a dancer, wasn't she?

MG: Yes.

VB: Yes, it's a nice, erm, photograph, this one as well.

MG: I think I saw [inaudible; overtalking].

VB: Yeah.

CP: Oh yes. I wasn't so keen on her, very well.

VB: Ah. Was there something about her that put you off a bit?

CP: I didn't go for the dancing. I used to go for the actresses.

VB: Mhm.

MG: Well she had a nice sort of voice, didn't she? [pause 4 seconds]

VB: There's some more here. Don't know if they're ones you remember.

MG: It's so long ago. Honestly.

VB: Yeah.

MG: I'd forgotten all about them more or less. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

MG: Now who's that?

VB: Matheson Lang.

MG: Oh yes. He was a-- I remember him. Brilliant actor.

CP: Yes. He was very good, wasn't he? Good actor. Wonderful actor.

VB: Did he make sort of historical pictures? 'Cause I see this one's Drake of England.

CP: No, I wasn't keen on them.

VB: Yeah.

MG: I remember the name but--

VB: Yeah.

MG: I couldn't tell you much about it. [pause 7 seconds]

VB: Lionel Barrymore.

MG: I don't recognise either of them.

VB: Do you remember Lionel Barrymore?

CP: Ahh, what's his name?

VB: Lionel Barrymore

MG: Oh yes. Yes, I remember the name.

VB: 'Cause there, were there not a few of the Barrymores? Were there not a few Barrymores?

CP: Yes. They were brothers, weren't they?

VB: Yeah.

CP: There was erm, Lionel Barrymore. Don't know if it was John, was it?

VB: John. That's it. Yeah.

CP: Think so. And there was another one, wasn't there? He wasn't in it very much.

VB: Did you think they were, were they any good? Did you like the Barrymores?

CP: Yes. Oh yes. I liked them.

MG: I think he was thought a lot of but I couldn't tell you much about him. As I say, we didn't go often enough.

VB: Yeah.

CP: Carole Lombard.

MG: [inaudible].

VB: Ahh.

VB: Jean Parker.

MG: Who?

VB: Jean Parker.

MG: Oh, I don't know the name. The face seemed familiar. That's all. [pause 2 seconds]

CP: Spencer Tracy, well. [laughs] [inaudible].

VB: Was he someone that you considered a good actor then?

CP: Yeah.

[pause 7 seconds]

MG: Robert Donat. I remember the last film I saw, for many years was him. Gosh, where, what was the name of it now? And he was simply super in that. I do remember that very much.

VB: 'Cause he was, I think this one is from The 39 Steps.

MG: What was the name?

VB: The 39 Steps. It's this one--

MG: No, that wasn't the name of it. No that doesn't, that doesn't come back to 00:17:00me anyway.

VB: What else was Robert Donat in?

MG: It was a something. [pause 5 seconds] Oh gosh, I can't remember. What was it now? [pause 3 seconds]

VB: I think it's got bits about the stars at the back here. He was in erm, was he not in Goodbye Mr Chips? Or something.

CP: That was Robert Donat.

VB: Robert Donat, yes. Did you like him?

CP: Yes.

MG: What was the big film that he did? What was the big show he did? I can't remember. Got a feeling it was something to do with Windsor.

CP: Who you talking about? John Barrymore?

VB: Robert Donat.

MG: No. Robert Donat.

VB: This is one from The 39 Steps in this book.

CP: Robert Donat. Yeah.

MG: I remember distinctly--

CP: [The] 39 Steps!

MG: What was it called?

VB: [The] 39 Steps.

MG: Don't think it was that.

CP: That was a bit of a mystery wasn't it? That was a thriller. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: Did you like, did you like Robert Donat?

CP: He was all right.

VB: He was all right. [laughs]

CP: [laughs]

VB: What about Madeleine Carroll? That was in The 39 Steps?

CP: Yeah. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: The one you're thinking of. What was the film like?

MG: I can't remember what it was. I remember he was wonderfully good in it and--

CP: Robert Donat.

MG: Then they put it on another time with a different man playing the part and it wasn't anything near like it. I didn't like that. In fact I think that was one we didn't see the end of it.

VB: Mhm.

MG: Can't remember. We went to the Langham in Pinner to see that. 'Course there's no Langham there now. But it was... [pause 3 seconds]

VB: What was the Langham in Pinner like?

MG: It was quite nice. We always used to go in the upstairs. And it was very nice. I liked it very much. My husband liked it too. We used to go there... [pause; 3 seconds] We used to go over, walk over there from Ruislip. And then have a cup of tea in a very nice tea shop up in the High Street. Olde worlde one. And then go there afterwards. Then, we used to get the bus home. The 220 used to run to Uxbridge and pass near our road and we got off there.

VB: It sounds like a nice day out that.

MG: Yes. I, those sort of things I can remember very well.

VB: Yeah.

MG: But I'm blessed if I can remember the name of the film. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: Oh, it's irritating that isn't it? [laughs]

MG: Yes. It's maddening when you can't remember.

VB: Yeah.

MG: It's just because I haven't thought about it for years.

VB: Of course. Yeah. [pause 6 seconds] He made quite a lot of fairly well known films didn't he? Robert Donat. I'm trying to think of--

CP: Oh yes. He did a lot. Yeah. You can't remember them all.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause I noticed at the back here, it said he was in The Private Life of Henry VIII.

CP: Mhm.

VB: But, I think that was Charles Laughton. Was the main part. It'll probably 00:21:00come back. Tomorrow or, it'll probably come back when you're not expecting it.

MG: Yes. That's right.

VB: Memory's like that, isn't it?

MG: That's maddening isn't it? When you can't remember a thing.

VB: That's right.

MG: Well it's just because I've never had well, no occasion to try to think about it.

VB: Yeah. [pause 2 seconds] That's Leslie Howard, I don't know if you know him, Leslie Howard.

MG: Oh, I don't know him very well. As I say, we didn't go very often.

VB: Yeah. [pause 3 seconds] Was going to the pictures a bit of a treat for you then when, you know, you were raising your family and--

MG: Well, I don't know, we had other things to do. We weren't all that sort of picture minded. When, if there was something, sometimes my husband would look in the local paper and he'd say, they got so and so on. And sometimes we went to the Langham, sometimes we went to the Rivoli in Ruislip.

VB: Ah.

MG: Where Sainsbury's [supermarket] was. Before it was, before it closed down. That was the Rivoli cinema. There were two in Ruislip. The Astoria in the High Street, and the Rivoli there in the side street. Ickenham Road I think they called it.

VB: Yeah.

MG: And erm, that was a walk from home.

VB: What was the Rivoli like?

MG: Pardon?

VB: What was the Rivoli like as a cinema?

MG: Oh it was very nice. We liked it. We liked it better than the Astoria.

VB: Was it quite upmarket? Was it a fancy one?

MG: No, no. That's many years ago, my dear.

VB: Right.

MG: I wouldn't call it as upmarket as they are today.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Or what they tell me they are, anyway. But as I tell you, it's years and years since I went to one. [pause 3 seconds] My husband died thirty-four years ago. And I think I only went two or three times after that and that was with a friend who was staying with me. She wanted to go and she'd say, "Oh come along. 00:23:00Let's go." But I wasn't bothered. I would never have gone on my own.

VB: 'Cause it sounds from what you're both saying that erm, that you [CP] were more of a cinemagoer.

MG: I think she was more of a cinemagoer than me.

VB: Yeah.

MG: I think I'm a dud end of it.

VB: Yeah. I mean how often did you go to the cinema?

CP: Oh I went ever, ever such a lot. I did. I was only a youngster then. Before I was married. Didn't go very much when I was married.

VB: Did you go at all when you, when you were courting your husband? Did your husband used to take you to the cinema before you were married?

CP: No. No.

VB: No.

CP: He wasn't so keen on films.

VB: Mhm. I mean it's an interesting point that. Do you think that men in general 00:24:00weren't so keen on films as women were?

MG: I don't think they did much. No.

VB: Mhm. [pause 4 seconds]

MG: We used to go to watch football matches, sometimes--

CP: Yeah.

MG: On a Saturday. I remember going two or three times to the Cup Final at Wembley. Because he was the secretary of the sports department of his work. His firm, and they used to have so many tickets allocated to them. And erm, if they weren't all taken up he'd say, would you like to go? I'd like to go. Will you come with me? And I'd say, oh, all right then. So we went to Wembley, once or twice. I liked it, I thought it was fun. I liked, 'course, we were in a stand, and it was, we had a seat anyway, to sit on. Hard, but it was all right. It was a seat.

VB: It must've been really exciting. I mean I've never been to a big football 00:25:00game like that.

MG: Well, I'm afraid I didn't think much about it then.

VB: [laughs]

MG: In those days.

VB: [laughs] I'm sure some people would've given an arm and a leg for one of these tickets.

MG: Maybe. Yes. Maybe.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Wasn't as popular, I don't suppose, as it is today. I don't know.

VB: Yeah.

HE: [enters room] Hi, I'm Helen.

VB: Oh hello!

HE: Hi. [laughs] We spoke on the 'phone but we've never actually met.

VB: Hello. Nice to meet you.

HE: Are these ladies providing you with lots of information?

VB: They are. Yes.

HE: Not what I expected, eh May? I wish I could've had time to, sort of, listen in. But perhaps you'll tell me another time, May?

MG: You can listen in if you want to.

HE: Well, I'm trying to get everybody upstairs at the moment for the film. I didn't want to disturb you.

MG: You what?

HE: I said I didn't really want to disturb you but I did want to introduce myself. Because we've spoken plenty of times on the phone and never actually met. So--

VB: Yeah.

HE: I'll leave you to it.

VB: Right.

HE: Grab some tissues [inaudible] around the place.

MG: Is somebody speaking? I thought somebody spoke behind me.

VB: I think she was just going away there. [laughs] Yeah. [pause 3 seconds] Yeah, I think your entertainer's coming in a minute so.

CP: Pardon?

VB: You're having an entertainer this afternoon.

CP: Mhm.

VB: I was hearing.

CP: Yeah? [pause 4 seconds]

MG: You get the sun like me, don't you, badly?

VB: Mhm.

MG: Very hot, sun on these windows. Doesn't go up much till about six o'clock does it?

CP: No, not much. No.

VB: Yeah.

CP: It's warm here. All the afternoon.

MG: Terrible hot. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: There was one more thing that I really wanted to ask you about was, really how you felt when you went to the pictures in the thirties. Erm. Did it make you feel any particular way or were you just caught up in it? Or?

MG: Not really.

CP: No, not really.

MG: It was all going in the dark. And a torch to show you where to go down the steps. You were thankful to get in your seat. Straight.

VB: Mhm. Were there, were there queues a lot in the cinemas then? Did people queue up?

MG: Sometimes. Yes, I believe they did sometimes.

CP: Yeah. I never did.

MG: I wouldn't queue, no.

CP: If there was a queue.

VB: Ah. So if there was a queue there, did you just not bother?

CP: You used to go, there'd be [inaudible], latecomers, you know...

VB: Ah I see.

CP: But I used to go in the afternoons if I could.

VB: Yeah.

CP: And erm, that kind of thing.

MG: I think they used to do a Saturday morning early, erm, price. Didn't they? Or something.

CP: Yeah.

VB: Did you have any particular afternoons that you went? Or was it just--

CP: Saturday afternoons.

VB: Saturdays. Yeah.

MG: Did you really?

CP: Saturday afternoons.

MG: By yourself?

CP: Pardon?

MG: By yourself?

CP: Yeah.

MG: Good heavens!

CP: My husband didn't like the pictures, he'd say, "You go off." He didn't mind. And I went. [pause 3 seconds] Yeah, I used to go a lot on my own.

VB: Was that, was it nice to have time on your own like that? Going to the pictures?

CP: Yes.

VB: Was that part of it for you?

CP: Yes.

VB: 'Cause it must've been sort of getting out of erm, doing household things and having a bit of time to yourself.

CP: Yeah. No. Housework's done Saturday afternoon.

VB: So that was your time for relaxing.

CP: That's it.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause it's interesting. You seem to be recognising most of the stars in that book just now, and--

CP: Yeah.

VB: Yeah. I see, I see you've left it open at Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. Was that one--

CP: Ah, yes, Snow White. [I wasn't keen on that?].

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

VB: Do you watch many films now on the television?

CP: Yes.

VB: Yeah.

CP: Not so much as I used to.

VB: Yeah.

MG: Didn't cost hardly anything to go, then did it--

VB: Mhm.

MG: Compared to what it is now. My son-in-law was telling me that they paid five pounds for seats to go to see something. When the two girls were over from Germany. I nearly fell through the floor.

VB: Yeah.

CP: Perhaps it was a certain film, was it?

MG: Pardon?

CP: Perhaps it was a certain film.

MG: Yes, something they wanted to see. I don't know what it was now. They did tell me but, I said good Lord, I wouldn't pay that to see it.

CP: No

MG: It's a terrific lot isn't it?

VB: Yeah, it really is.

MG: The value of money is so different today.

VB: Even so. [laughs] It's still a lot.

MG: You paid two shillings, you paid a lot. Didn't you?

VB: Mhm. Did you ever go into the cinemas in the, in the centre of London? The, erm, sort of Leicester 00:31:00Square area or...

CP: I didn't go to London much. Not in London. I used to live in Harrow, that way, you know.

VB: Yeah.

CP: This way.

VB: How long did you live in Harrow? When did you? 'Cause you weren't born in Harrow were you?

CP: Oh no.

VB: No. 'Cause I remember from when we talked before. Erm, when did you move there?

CP: Erm. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: Just roughly. I mean...

CP: I forget now. Can't remember.

VB: Was it before you were married? Or after you were married?

CP: Before.

VB: Before. Yeah.

MG: I think you'll have to excuse me.

VB: Of course.

MG: I must get my bag emptied.

VB: Of course.

MG: I have to get out. I hope-- I don't know if I'm going straight.

VB: You're a wee bit. You're going to go into the door there actually. You're needing to go a bit more this way.

MG: I can't do this turning backwards.

VB: Ah it's difficult. Can I, can I do it manually?

MG: No. I'm afraid, it's electric. Let me, may I see if I can twist?

VB: Yes. Of course.

MG: No, I can't. Oh, I don't know. I might.

VB: Ah.

MG: Thank you.

OP: Are you coming up with us?

MG: Is Jean around?

OP: Jean. Is Jean there?

VB: It's tricky to manage that I think. Yeah.

OP: Is Jean there?

CP: What's she wanting?

[loud piercing noise coming through tape machine].

VB: She's needing her bag emptied I think.

CP: Pardon

VB: She's needing her bag emptying.

CP: Okay.

OP: Okay? Finished?

VB: Yeah. I think that's --

OP: Are you coming up to the entertainment now?

CP: Well, I wasn't.

OP: Why?

CP: No. Because I thought, well it's not much. I'm just going for the entertainment, aren't I?

OP: That's all right. Better than sitting in here.

CP: Then tomorrow's the outing. Are you looking on the programme?

OP: No.

CP: Tomorrow's outing.

OP: Down the pub tomorrow. [pause 3 seconds]

CP: Well, it's on the programme.

OP: As a pub crawl, the pub. You're not on it. You don't want to come down there.

CP: No, I don't.

OP: You're not coming? [pause 3 seconds]. No?

CP: Well I don't know, do I?

OP: Upstairs. Today.

CP: Oh today?

OP: To listen to the music. [pause 2 seconds] The singing. No, all right. I'm 00:34:00not pushing. You know your way out don't you? 'Cause I've got. I'm taking more residents. I've got to move them up there.

VB: Yes, I do.

OP: So I'll see you again. Okay.

VB: Right.

OP: See you later, young lady!

VB: Yeah. [laughs] Sounds like you've got a lot going on.

CP: [inaudible]. [pause 5 seconds] It's Tuesday.

VB: Oh this is this entertainer.

CP: Yes. [pause 4 seconds] Oh well.

VB: Oh well. [laughs]

CP: She doesn't [inaudible].

VB: Ah it's nice and peaceful here. [pause 8 seconds] It's been, it's 00:35:00interesting listening to you talk about the thirties, 'cause it's so different from. [pause 2 seconds] I mean Harrow must've changed a lot.

CP: Yes. Yes.

VB: In that time.

[voices in background]

VB: Was it a lot, erm, quieter in the thirties round Harrow and--

CP: No. No. Things would be the same. I seemed to grow up with Harrow, you know.

VB: Yeah. I'm sure you've seen a lot of changes in the area.

CP: Oh yes. Yeah.

VB: What part of Harrow was it, was it you stayed in then?

CP: Erm, I stayed in Wealdstone for quite a long time.

VB: Ah.

CP: And then I went to Kenton. And then I went to Formby Avenue. That is in, erm, Kenton Lane.

VB: Ahh, yeah.

CP: Near the Belmont.

VB: Yeah.

CP: It's not there any more is it?

VB: Mhm.

CP: No. Then I came here.

VB: Yeah.

CP: I didn't come here, just here. I came all over the place, you know.

VB: It sounds like you've lived a lot of different places.

CP: Oh yes. Yes.

VB: Yeah. I don't really know the area very well. I've been staying in Wealdstone so I've got a rough idea. But I don't know Kenton or that part at all.

CP: Yes.

VB: No.

[pause 9 seconds]

VB: Did you ever get things like this yourself in the thirties?

CP: No.

VB: Did you get any of the film magazines or anything?

CP: No. Oh, I used to get a magazine every week. Radio Times, was it? No, Radio something. 'Course there were no television, then.

VB: Yeah. Not the 'Picturegoer'? Did you get the 'Picturegoer'?

CP: Yeah. And something else. I had to get them all. [laughs]

VB: Yeah. So did you know a lot about the stars then?

CP: Mhm.

VB: Yeah.

CP: But it was more, before I was married.

VB: Right.

CP: I didn't go so much afterwards.

VB: Yeah. Erm, [to other person], you know. I think we're about, no that's fine. 00:38:00Yeah. I'll just go and have a word. [speaks to other person]. No, I think we're just about finished. Thanks very much for talking to me. I really appreciated that. Thanks a lot.

[pause 6 seconds]

VB: She looks a bit tired I think. [talking about May Godden]

CP: Yeah. Possibly, yeah.

VB: It's been a bit tiring for her. So, it was amazing to find out how old she was. [laughs]

CP: Mhm.

VB: I wouldn't have believed that. [pause 4 seconds] It's interesting. So you got the film magazines. [pause 3 seconds] Did you have any other favourites stars, apart from Bette Davis? Were there other stars that you particularly liked?

CP: [pause 5 seconds] No. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: I suppose I should let you get on with your afternoon. It's, erm, been really interesting for me to listen to you. And. Thanks very much for letting me come to talk to you again.

CP: That's all right.

VB: I appreciate that. [pause 3 seconds] I'm a bit loathe to go outside. It's so hot.

CP: Oh it's terribly hot out there.

VB: Oh! It's far, far too hot. It's been like this for so long as well.

CP: Mhm.

VB: You realise how nice it is to have some rain.

CP: Yes.

VB: When you've had this heat. Do you get much of a breeze in here?

CP: Not very much. That's all we get.

VB: Yeah. Yeah.

[sound of rustling paper]

VB: This is a lovely photograph.

CP: All my family there.

VB: That's a lovely one, this one.

CP: Yes. My two sons. My son. My eldest son that is, and his two sons.

VB: Really!

CP: And his wife.

VB: He's very like this son isn't he?

CP: Yeah.

VB: You can really see the likeness there. [pause 4 seconds]

CP: And there's my other son.

VB: Yes.

CP: And my daughter.

VB: Ah! Your sons are very alike actually, aren't they?

CP: Mhm. Yeah.

VB: Really see the likeness there.

CP: My two sons there. Yes. One each side of her.

VB: Yeah.

CP: There's her son as well.

VB: Ah!

CP: That tall one.

VB: [laughs] He's like his mother isn't he?

CP: Do you think so?

VB: I think the face. Yes. Erm, he's got his, he looks like he's got the 00:41:00father's sort of smile though.

CP: Oh yes, yes.

VB: He's a combination. Yeah. Who's this on the end here?

CP: That's my daughter and her husband.

VB: Ah.

CP: He's a very nice chap.

VB: Ah.

CP: Very nice he is.

VB: I can see the likeness with your daughter. She's like you. Do your family live round about here?

CP: Fairly close.

VB: Yeah.

CP: They don't live on top of me, if you know what I mean.

VB: Yeah.

CP: [inaudible; tape noise].

[End of Side B]

[End of Interview]