Norman Wild with Vee Entwistle (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: NW-95-036AT002

* CCINTB Transcript ID: 95-36-10a-av, 95--36-11a-c

* Tapes: NW-95-036OT002, NW-95-036OT003

* CCINTB Tape ID: T95-53, T95-54a

* Length: 01:01:57

* Bolton, Greater Manchester, 13 June 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Norman Wild with Vee (Vera) Entwistle

* Transcribed by Joan Simpson/ Standardised by Jamie Terrill

* NW=Norman Wild/ VE=Vee Entwistle/ VB=Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second of two interviews with Norman Wild and Vee Entwistle; Sound Quality: Good; This interview was originally transcribed in a phonetic manner; The original phonetic version can be accessed through our physical collection; please contact Lancaster University Library for more details.

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[VB introduction to tape]

VE: Don’t switch it off yet.

VB: Right. [laughs] I’m just getting it ready.

[rustling; general conversation; voices in background]

NW: Are you recording now?

VB: Yes, I've just put it on. Yeah. That should be okay.

NW: [inaudible] would you say?

VB: Yeah.

NW: Erm, Laurel and Hardy, Charlie Chaplin, [The] Three Stooges, Marx Brothers. I used to always get a good laugh out of these people. You know. Did you?

VE: [laughs] Yeah.

NW: It was all eh, good clean fun, you know. There was no eh--

VE: Harold Lloyd.

NW: Sorry?

VE: Harold Lloyd.

NW: I didn't see much of him.

VE: Did you not?

NW: No, didn't see much of Harold Lloyd. Tom Tyler, like Tom Mix, he was in eh, good westerns, you know.

VB: What made someone like Tom--

NW: Eh?

VB: What made someone like Tom Tyler or Mix, what made them particularly good, do you think?

NW: Eh, there weren't too many about, was there, cowboys? You know.

VE: No, not really. No. They were like the first that brought the cowboys in.

NW: Yeah. Hopalong Cassidy, William Boyd, he was another.

VE: Yeah.

NW: Eh, there were three or four good western people, you know. Used to visit cinema each Saturday when we was young. Like different pictures, you know. More 00:03:00or less see it every week, didn't you?

VE: It was Cowboys and Indians.

VB: Ah I see. So, they were the ones that were the most popular?

VE: At the time, yes.

VB: I see.

NW: Boris Karloff. Valerie Hobson.

VE: No. We're on to cowboys for starters.

NW: Sorry?

VE: We're onto cowboys for starters.

NW: We're on what?

VE: Cowboys.

NW: Oh, yes, well eh... [pause 5 seconds] You always eh, all the kids used to be keen, you know, when they chased after Indians, stuff like that.

VE: They were actually in it. If you know what I mean. Did all, they sat there going, [slaps leg] "Come on! Come on! He's after you! He's after you!"

VB: That's interesting actually. Erm, so did you feel, did you feel as if you were part of the film?

NW: Oh yes, aye. Definitely, you know. Part of the whole show, you know. And audience used to join in, didn't they?

VB: Oh yes. "Booooo!" As the baddies were coming along. [laughs]

NW: Eh... [pause 4 seconds] Tom Mix. Tom Tyler. Who were--

VB: Hopalong Cassidy.

NW: Roy Rogers.

VE: They were the, Roy Rogers and Trigger.

NW: And Silver, you know. His horse was Silver [the Lone Ranger's horse]. Do you remember Roy Rogers?

VE: No! Roy Rogers and Trigger.

NW: Trigger. Cassidy's, Hopalong Cassidy.

VE: No. Oh. The one with the mask on.

VB: Oh, The Lone Ranger.

VE: The Lone Ranger.

NW: Oh yes, The Lone Ranger, yes.

VE: With Tonto.

NW: Ah.

VE: The Indian.

VB: So, can I ask as well, you were talking about going with all the other children.

NW: Talking about?

VB: Going with your friends.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Was that part of the attraction of it?

NW: Oh yeah. We always used to go in a crowd like, you know.

VE: Oh, a crowd, yeah.

NW: About four or five of us. Saturday afternoon, you know.

VE: And if it broke down we used to-- [stamps on floor] Everybody stamped their feet, didn't they?

NW: Ah. Walter [redacted], Jack [redacted], er, [inaudible]. They were a big crowd of lads, you know. But eh, we made it like an afternoon out on Saturday, you know. And eh, sometimes I went to that with my dad, to the Royal, same cinema.

VB: Was it different going with your friends and going with your dad? Was it a different sort of--

NW: Well it weren't the same atmosphere really, you know. Eh--

VE: Couldn't let yourself go, with your dad. [laughs]

NW: Eh?

VE: You couldn't let yourself go, with your dad.

NW: Used to have bit more fun with lads, you know.

VE: Everybody were whooping, you know.

VB: I see.

VE: But you couldn't do it if you had a parent with you, you know.

VB: Had to behave yourself.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Yeah. Can I ask, did you do other things with the boys you went to the cinema with?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Did you do other things together with your friends that you went to--?

NW: Yeah, we'd go to park. When we were a bit older we used to go bowling and stuff like that. Then we'd play football on Queen's Park. Then doing acrobats. Eh, all kinds of things, you know. Queen's Park.

VE: They had horizontal bars, didn't they? And those rings.

NW: These what?

VE: Horizontal bars, in Queen's Park.

NW: Oh yeah, aye. And erm--

VE: And the rings. You know, the... [pause 3 seconds]

VB: I know what you mean. The things that hang down and you sort of pull yourself up.

NW: Yeah. Eh, we were always together. Always.

VE: Gymnastic rings.

NW: And then eh, when I were a bit older, I used to go with [Phil? inaudible].

VE: That's right.

NW: And another lad. Two or three times I used to go bowling, like in summer. Eh, I know it's an old man's game, but we used to enjoy it.

VB: No, it's a--

VE: Well, it wasn't then, it wasn't then. I mean anybody could play it then.

NW: Yeah, well in our park you'd two greens.

VE: Yeah.

NW: It had what you call a big green and a little green for lads, you know. So, I went there and, erm, we were always together. All lads, you know. I don't think we'd erm, we'd no eh, like girlfriends, anything like that, you know. We eh, just didn't bother with girlfriends. So--

VE: And I was a tomboy. [laughs]

VB: [laughs] Did you stop going to the pictures when you were a bit older so much?

NW: Did I stop going?

VB: Did you stop going so much? When you were at that age.

VE: You didn't stop going to the pictures, you used to go quite a bit, didn't you?

NW: Oh, I used to go a bit.

VB: Yeah.

NW: I used to go quite often. Especially, you see, these subtitle films here--

VB: Mhm.

NW: I lost my hearing, you see, in the army. And when there was subtitle film on, I could tell what it was about. I couldn't hear it.

VE: Couldn't hear it, so he could watch it.

NW: I couldn't hear the dialogue.

VE: Didn't you go about three times a week?

NW: Oh, no, about twice.

VE: Twice a week.

NW: Think twice. I did enjoy it, it was entertainment. I enjoyed dancing. Eh, I used to go with lads dancing and eh, at half time I used to go in the pub. They used to stop in pub and I used to come back to Palais, dancing.

VE: Roller skating.

NW: Oh, roller skating! Aye yeah. Eh, I used to do eh, roller skating, in our street. I were always doing acrobats like, you know. Standing on me hands and doing cartwheels, stuff like that.

VE: [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

NW: I can still do it.

VB: Yeah. [laughs] I'm saying that's why you're so slim. [laughs]

NW: [laughs] I'm not past it yet, you know.

VB: No. [laughs] I'm sure. [laughs]

NW: [reading VB's questions] "What put you off women's pictures?" Well eh... [pause 3 seconds] we didn't make it a point of seeing women's pictures, you know. They were more like dancing pictures them. And we didn't like them, you know. So eh...

VB: [laughs] Why? Why didn't--

NW: Sorry?

VB: Why didn't you like dancing pictures?

NW: Oh I, no I didn't like them. I don't know, can't tell you why.

VB: What was it put you off?

VE: He didn't like Fred Astaire at all.

NW: I only remember eh...

VE: Why did you not like them?

NW: I don't know. They just didn't appeal to me at all, you know.

VB: Was it the same with your friends? Did they not like them much?

NW: Oh no. Dancing pictures?

VB: Yeah.

NW: No.

VB: I'm wondering if it's something that, you know, maybe wasn't thought the sort of thing that boys should go to. Was it a--

VE: No. I don't think so, no.

VB: No.

VE: No.

NW: Sorry? What?

VE: She's saying she thought it might've been something that boys didn't go to. But some went, didn't they? Some lads used to like them.

NW: Aye.

VE: Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers.

NW: Aye.

VB: Mhm.

NW: But we never went.

VB: Just not your--

VE: They were more for erm--

NW: [reading questions VB prepared] Eh, "Did you like any of the women stars in particular?" There's only one I remember really, that's the one with Crosby and Bob Hope and his--

VE: Dorothy Lamour.

NW: That's it.

VE: The Road pictures. [referring to: Road to... series of films (1940 - 62)]

NW: Was it Road to Zanzibar and stuff like that?

VE: The Road pictures.

NW: The Road. So eh, I only remember her really. Eh, I couldn't tell you many names of women stars.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Oh.

NW: Could you?

VE: Oh yeah. [laughs]

VB: [laughs] Actually--

VE: And the men as well.

NW: Eh?

VE: And the men as well.

VB: And the men. [laughs]

VE: I knew the men as well.

NW: Men as well.

VE: Yes.

VB: I brought along erm, which I thought you might both be interested in seeing, erm, a couple of film books from the thirties. Actually, I had them with me the other day as well. I didn't have a chance. I brought two so I can let you both have them [laughs] if you want.

VE: Oh! My sister had that one. Greta Garbo. [changing pronunciation] Or Greta.

VB: I think they mainly are the women's films that are in these so I don't know--

NW: Women's films?

VB: Yeah. Mainly. I don't know if any of your favourite stars will be in there.

VE: Clark Gable.

NW: Erm, it says [inaudible] I didn't, I didn't [inaudible]

VB: Did you like the adventure films? Last time I was here we talked a bit about--

NW: Adventure?

VB: Yeah.

NW: Oh yeah, oh yeah. I liked adventure pictures. Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: I saw one or two of this girl's pictures.

VB: Oh Sonia Henje.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Yeah, Sonia Henje.

VB: Did you like that sort of, did you like the skating films then?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Did you like that sort of film with a bit of skating?

NW: Yes. [looks at book] Ah! Paul Robeson I used to like.

VB: Paul Robeson.

NW: [inaudible] I used to see his pictures, if they were [inaudible]

VE: Paul Robeson. They were very good them.

NW: Ah. I used to like him.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Mhm. What was it you liked about him?

NW: His singing. And his eh, they were jungle pictures, you know. I like jungle pictures.

VB: Right.

NW: So...

VB: So, was it the adventure side of it as well you liked?

NW: Yeah, I think so.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Oh [inaudible] Bette Davis, Dolores del Rio, ooh, she was good looking.

NW: I bet these [people?] are dead and buried now, aren't they?

VB: Yeah, I'm sure, yeah.

VE: She was Tarzan's first mate.

VB: Maureen O'Sullivan? 'Cause, that's wha, we talked a bit about the Tarzan films.

VE: Yeah.

VB: You were saying that you enjoyed the Tarzan--

NW: Sorry?

VB: The Tarzan films. With Tarzan.

VE: The Tarzan films.

NW: Oh yeah, I liked Tarzan. Weissmuller yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: John Weissmuller, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Yeah, I liked those.

VB: Did you feel that you--

NW: You were part of it.

VB: You were part of it

VE: Oh yes, yes. We used to all come out, going [imitates Tarzan call]. Oh.

NW: I think she's still living, isn't she? Shirley Temple.

VE: Oh yes, yes.

NW: She's still alive.

VE: She's about sixty-six, I think.

VB: Did you like her pictures?

NW: I saw her in a few pictures, Shirley, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Eh, I thought she were older than that I thought she was born about 1929.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Yeah, exactly.

NW: Oh. I thought she was older.

VE: Yeah! Sixty-five, sixty-six. I saw him, eh, yesterday, in Gaslight. Charles Boyer.

VB: Charles Boyer.

VE: With Ingrid Bergman.

NW: Have you always had these books?

VB: Well, I got them in Glasgow quite recently.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: There's Harold Lloyd!

NW: Yeah, that's an old picture too, isn't it?

VE: That's Harold Lloyd! He always wore glasses. You never saw him without glasses. Very, very rarely he ever took them off. [pause 3 seconds] He was very good in eh, you know, comedies.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Like slapstick comedy, you know.

NW: I remember a lot of these people, like him.

VB: Yeah.

NW: W.C. Fields. And I saw him in a few pictures, him. W.C. Fields. [Bing] Crosby.

VB: Mhm.

NW: He were in this eh, the Road pictures with Dorothy Lamour.

VB: Did you like W.C. Fields?

NW: Pardon?

VB: Did you think he was good as an actor?

NW: Yeah, used to see him, yeah.

VB: He was a very good actor. He was a very good actor, but he never liked to work with children.

NW: I mean, there's some I don't remember. There's one called John Lodge here.

VB: Yes.

NW: Do you remember him?

VE: Yes. I always used to get him mixed up with John Moulder.

NW: Hartley Power, who's that?

VE: Who?

NW: Hartley Power.

VE: No, no.

NW: David Burns.

VE: Yeah.

NW: I don't remember any of them.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Oh ah. I remember John Lodge. I used to get him mixed up, I think John Lodge was with Gracie Fields, in the film that Dorris [a friend of NW and VE] were in. With the Krunchy Wunchy [referring to Sing As We Go!]. Miriam Hopkins, yeah, Lee Tracy, Pat O'Brien, James 00:16:00Cagney. [pause 4 seconds] Jack Holt.

NW: See this type eh, I didn't like.

VB: Mhm.

NW: That type I weren't keen on.

VB: A sort of erm, Jezebel.

NW: That's called Jezebel or something.

VB: Yeah.

VE: That was erm.... [pause 3 seconds], Bette Davis.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Oh, Elisabeth Bergner. Oh!

VB: Would you just not go to pictures like that?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Did you just not bother going to pictures like that.

NW: Oh no.

VE: Oh no.

NW: We didn't see that.

VB: Yeah.

NW: I think, did you Vera?

VE: What?

NW: I think Vera would.

VE: Oh yeah. Oh, I really liked any kind of picture that I could be involved in, you know. Sometimes I--

NW: I used to like Gary Cooper pictures. Eh, the one he made called High Noon. I've seen that about eh, four or five times that.

VB: Really?

VE: That was with Grace Kelly.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Gary Cooper and, eh, today's pictures is eh, Clint Eastwood. I like him.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Eh, and I used to like James Stewart. Winchester '73, he made one called Winchester '73. Er, Burt Lancaster I liked. And er, Robert Mitchum. Them five, I like them stars.

VB: It's interesting because there are sort of similarities between these. They're all these--

NW: Oh yeah, yeah.

VB: Sort of strong types.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Was that, was that what you liked in a-- what did you like in a film star?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Were there particular--

NW: I liked the personality of them, really.

VB: Yeah.

NW: You know. And the films of course, you know.

VB: Yeah, yeah.

NW: I liked eh, The Birdman of Alcatraz.

VE: That were a good film.

NW: That was eh, was that Robert, not eh--

VB: Burt Lancaster.

VE: Burt Lancaster.

NW: Lancaster, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Erm, and I remember a lad called Audie Murphy pictures. He was in westerns as well.

VB: Uhuh.

VE: Yeah.

NW: That were a bit later on from my schooldays.

VE: Those three or four--

VB: Right.

VE: Were the first ones to bring the cowboys in, those first three. They were like the very first.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Because the films used to be very rapid. Doh, de, do. [makes rapid movements]

VB: [laughs]

VE: All be rushing about. You know, not, not quite a gallop.

VB: Yeah. Yeah.

VE: They'd sort of be going at double pace, you know.

VB: Yeah.

VE: But those three or four were the start of the proper cowboys.

VB: I mean, it's interesting that you liked these kind of films. Did you ever, 00:19:00do you think that they influenced how you behaved as a, as a young man?

NW: Do you want to say it again, love. What did you say?

VB: I'm wondering if characters like the Burt Lancaster characters influenced the way you acted yourself? Do you think you--

NW: Not really. Did they?

VE: Well you didn't feel like you were doing a Burt Lancaster, did you?

NW: Sorry?

VE: You didn't feel that you were ever doing a Burt Lancaster.

NW: Oh no. Oh no.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Oh, I used to be doing a Bette Davis.

NW: I used to enjoy the movies and eh the lads that were in them, you know what I mean?

VB: Mhm. That's interesting, you were saying that you used to do a Bette Davis.

VE: Oh yes. I was Bette Davis, I'd bold my eyes out.

NW: Have you ever, done any filming? Have you seen that side of it, the filming side of it?

VB: Very much so, yes.

NW: Splicing and [cell?] cutting?

VB: Were you, were you interested in the technical side--

NW: Sorry?

VB: [louder] Were you interested in the technical side of pictures--

VE: Yes. Yes.

VB: As a young man?

VE: Yeah, yeah. Were you interested in the technical issues of it?

NW: Oh yeah, oh yeah, always. [inaudible]

VE: He like to see how they worked, you know.

NW: And I always looked for eh, even today, I--

VE: [laughs]

NW: If I see a mistake in a film, I'll tell them, won't I?

VE: [laughs] He tells me!

VB: [laughs]

NW: Say, "Did you watch that picture?" So and so, so and so. I say, "No, no I didn't. No, why?" He said, "Oh they made a mistake. And there was such a thing. And that wasn't there in that time."

VB: [laughs]

VE: They'd got a, maybe a prop in the wrong year, you know.

VB: Yeah.

NW: [inaudible] Ray Milland.

VB: Ray Milland.

NW: Ray Milland.

VE: Oh, oh I [cried?]. Oh, he was good.

NW: Hey. You wouldn't think he could [inaudible] like that, he were like a table, weren't he?

VB: [laughs]

VE: Yeah, he was. Oh! It was heart rendering that, when I saw it. He was the, can you remember Love Story?

VB: Yes.

VE: Well, he was the father of the boy in that. [bags under his eyes?; whispering; inaudible] After seeing him with Marlene Dietrich in Golden Earrings. Oh, it was a fabulous picture.

VB: So was it--

VE: I was gone, me. I was in it. I was in the back of the thing with the gypsies, you know. Going along with them, yeah. What were you saying, sorry?

VB: No, it's interesting. I was wondering if erm, it was a bit of a disappointment sometimes to see the stars in later years.

VE: Oh, I cried when I saw him. [whispers; inaudible] Now George Raft was always turned as a gangster, but he was a very good dancer. He could rumba with anybody, very suave.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Ooh.

VB: I think we mentioned George Raft the last time I was here.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: He was a very good dancer. [pause 3 seconds] Or is it, it is rumba. But later on, he became more of a--

NW: Gracie Fields. She was born just a few miles from here, Rochdale.

VE: Mhm.

VB: Did you like Gracie Fields?

NW: Sorry.

VB: Did you like her pictures?

NW: She made a couple in Lancashire, didn't she?

VE: Did you like Gracie Fields?

NW: Well, I liked the locations. I liked--

VE: He liked the connections, you know.

NW: She did do a thing in Bolton, didn't she, Vera?

VE: Yeah.

NW: And then she had like, locations like Blackpool and places like that. All places we knew. You know what I'm meaning?

VB: So, the locations were more of interest than the--

NW: Yeah.

VB: Stories? Or--

NW: Yeah.

VE: Oh yes. [pause 5 seconds]

VE: Oh Luise Rainer. Oh!

NW: There's a book place in Preston that do all these books.

VB: Mhm!

NW: Aye. You can eh, if you're looking for a book, you can write and they'll eh, trace if for you, and get hold of it. And erm--

VE: Find you something. [pause 4 seconds] Did you actually buy these?

VB: Yes.

VE: You did?

VB: Well, the project did.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Oh! Good.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Madeleine Carroll. She was a good-looking girl.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Robertson Hare! [pause 4 seconds]

VB: Someone was telling me about Robertson Hare. Did he not have a catch phrase?

VE: Who?

VB: Robertson Hare.

VE: "Oh Calamity! Oh Calamity!"

VB: [laughs]

[pause 7 seconds]

VE: Charlie Chaplin.

NW: Vera?

VE: Do you know who that is?

NW: That's Charlie Chaplin that.

VE: [laughs]

VB: Not in his hat. [laughs]

NW: Charlie Chaplin in his old pictures here.

VE: I know, I've got it in here as well. What have you got in there? I've forgotten, I've missed it again. [pause 5 seconds] I've looked at it all, I'm trying to find, I told you, I tried to find that film that he was in. I've lost it, oh, wait a minute, is it one of these? Oh how funny, I've written those down in my book.

VB: Mhm!

VE: Warner Oland in the eh, Charlie Chan films. He was very good.

NW: Oliver Hardy was twenty stone. Over twenty stone.

[pause 4 seconds]

VB: What was it about the Laurel and Hardy--

NW: Sorry?

VB: Were there things in the Laurel and Hardy films that really made you laugh?

VE: Oh!

NW: Sorry, what?

VE: The things! What were the things in the Laurel and Hardy series that made you laugh?

NW: Eh, they was a good couple. They weren't like these today, I don't like these today where [inaudible]. But these two, ah you would laugh at these two. You know you could eh, he were a stooge weren't he? Eh, Laurel.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Laurel.

VE: Ooh-ooh-ooh.

NW: And Charlie Chaplin as well, I used to like these. But these today, eh, they're nor a patch on them.

VE: Well, it was a simple thing. But yet--

NW: What do you call, that eh, chap that died? [pause 3 seconds] Morecambe and eh--

VE: Morecambe and Wise.

NW: Morecambe and Wise. To me--

VE: But they were comedians, Norman. They were comedians.

NW: Yeah.

VE: These were comedy actors.

NW: Oh yeah, aye.

VE: It was a different thing altogether.

NW: Yeah. But there nor a patch on these eh, these two were, you know.

VB: Mhm.

VE: I always remember seeing Laurel and Hardy in one, they were building, they were like on a building site, and they were building this house, like. And they put the window frame in. The glass wasn't in. And the little one says, like [imitates mumble] and he lifted the window up! But there were no glass in! [laughs] He said, "What did you want, Stanley?"

VB: [laughs]

VE: There was no glass in. They hadn't put the glass in.

NW: That's Paul Robeson there.

VB: Ah yes.

NW: Sanders of the River, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: That was a very good film that.

VB: Who's the woman in it?

NW: I don't know who that is.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Is it Mae McKinney?

VE: No. No. I think those were sort of--

NW: Have you heard of her?

VB: I haven't, no.

VE: They were stars that didn't quite make it.

VB: Yeah.

VE: You know, like. There's a lot in, but they didn't quite make it as a, as a star, as I would say, you know.

VB: Yeah.

VE: That you could say, oh yes, Paul Robeson, and Laurel and Hardy.

VB: Yeah.

VE: You know, they didn't. These were like, what I'd call second rate. They didn't, just pull up, you know.

VB: Yeah. What was that film, Sanders of the River?

VE: Sanders of the River.

VB: What was that about, Sanders of the River?

NW: Sorry?

VB: What was that Paul Robeson film about? Sanders of the River.

NW: About what, love?

VE: What was Sanders of the River about?

NW: Just a jungle picture really.

VE: No, it wasn't!

NW: Kind of kids of the jungle really, you know.

VE: No it wasn't.

VB: [laughs]

VE: No.

NW: If they're jungle pictures, I used to like them, you know. I used to like jungle pictures. [pause 3 seconds] What?

VB: [laughs]

VE: Sanders of the River was a British erm, governor over the colonies.

NW: It's a what, love?

VE: Sanders was the governor, over the islands.

NW: I would have said Sanders of the River.

VE: It was Sanders. He was Sanders.

NW: [inaudible] in that.

VE: No! I said it wasn't a jungle picture.

NW: It was.

VE: No it wasn't.

NW: Zambezi, Zambezi River, stuff like that.

VE: Yes! But that was, if you remember, Paul Robeson worked on the quayside, where the boats were.

NW: Aye. I know he were in it.

VE: But he was actually a chief.

VB: Ah, I see.

VE: And Sanders of the River, he was like the governor.

VB: Right.

VE: And he made him that he got his rightful position. He was the chief. [pause 3 seconds] No it wasn't a jungle picture as such.

VB: No. But did it have quite a lot of adventure in it?

VE: Oh yes. Yeah, yeah.

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

[audio restarts after 25 seconds]

VB: Oh, Cary Grant.

VE: Oh!

VB: [laughs]

VE: He was gorgeous. He was in some very good films. And he was what I call, natural. As though he wasn't actually, learning lines. It was as though it was an everyday thing with him, you know. Some you could tell it was sort of, a forced, acting part. But with him, he was always, and he was funny. He could do funny things when they weren't expected, you know. And he put the other stars at 00:30:00ease. [pause 5 seconds]

VB: [laughs] Not at all.

VE: Ask him.

VB: I mean, I see you've come back--

NW: Crosby.

VB: --to Bing Crosby, yeah.

VE: Yeah.

NW: He looks like he'd a good family too, did he? Crosby.

VE: Oh, he had four boys.

NW: Aye.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Do you think that side of him--

NW: Sorry?

VB: Did that side of him come out in his pictures, do you think? Did he come over as a family man or?

NW: He did really. Yeah, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: And yet, he wasn't.

NW: Sorry?

VE: And yet, he wasn't.

NW: He wasn't?

VE: No.

NW: Well, it looks like it here.

VE: Oh, he wasn't.

NW: He not? Why not?

VB: [laughs]

VE: He wasn't. Because his wife was always left with the four boys.

NW: Ah. And did he leave her?

VE: No. She died.

NW: Oh, did she?

VB: Mhm. What about erm, Douglas Fairbanks?

NW: Fairbanks, oh.

VE: Aw yes. Swashbuckler he was. Like the pirate type, you know.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Saving the lady, you know. He was very good and he was the image of his father.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Douglas Fairbanks Junior. Oh, he was the model of his father. [pause 4 seconds] Saw him on television the other night, he's about eighty-four or five. You can still--

NW: Well, he was in a few pictures too, Alan Hale. Eh--

VE: He was in a few of the Robin Hood ones. Alan Hale.

NW: Yeah. But then his son came in pictures.

VE: Yes. Alan Hale Junior.

NW: Alan Hale Junior.

VE: And he was a spin-off of his father.

VB: Mhm. Did you like erm--

NW: Sorry?

VB: Did you like historical adventures?

NW: Oh history, not really.

VB: Like that, the Crusades.

NW: Not really.

VB: Not so much.

VE: Oh, I did.

NW: Eh, I weren't keen on historical pictures.

VE: Oh, I was.

VB: Mhm.

NW: Were you?

VE: Yes, I liked anything. I mean it's like music. I really like any kind of music except this--

NW: [inaudible] Leo Carrillo.

VE: That's right.

NW: Do you remember him?

VE: Yes, I do! He was with erm, Nelson Eddy and Jeanette MacDonald in a film.

NW: What?

VE: He was in with Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy.

NW: Yeah.

VE: Leo Carrillo.

VB: 'Cause we talked a bit about--

NW: Sorry?

VB: We talked a bit about the gangster films as well when I was here before.

NW: Which films?

VB: The gangster films.

NW: Gangster?

VB: Yes.

NW: The gangsters.

NW: What? Edward G. Robinson? Yeah, we'd see them.

VB: Yeah. What appealed to you about, what was it you liked about the gangster movies?

NW: [pause 3 seconds] Just the adventure, I suppose.

VE: They were fast and there was a lot of action. Always a lot of action going.

NW: Yeah. Eh, and I liked Edward G., Edward G. Robinson.

VB: What was it about him?

NW: With his cigar, he used to have a cigar, didn't he.

VE: Well, he looked a typical gangster.

NW: He looked like a gangster.

VE: He looked like a gangster--

NW: He looked the part, really, you know.

VE: You know. You couldn't have put him as eh, a Romeo at all, you know. He was a gangster.

VB: I've got that. Yeah, I think I had that with me the last time I was here.

NW: That's it, yeah.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Oh, I didn't see that.

VB: Maybe I didn't have it, can't remember.

VE: He was a very, very good actor.

NW: Minus his cigar.

VB: Yeah. [laughs]

NW: A twelve-inch cigar.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Always had a big cigar.

VB: Yeah.

VE: But he wasn't, he was a typical gangster.

VB: Yeah.

VE: You'd look at him and say, "Ooh, he looks like a thug" you know.

VB: [laughs] 'Cause he's not what you would call--

VE: Handsome.

VB: Handsome.

VE: He's not handsome.

VB: No.

VE: You couldn't put him as a lady's man.

VB: Yeah. Though he's not bad in this photograph.

VE: He's only young there.

VB: Yeah.

VE: But as he got older he went more [pause 3 seconds] jowly.

VB: Yeah.

VE: But he was a marvellous actor, marvellous actor. He could play an executive as well, you know. If he wanted things doing, "I want it doing. Now!"

VB: So, he was always in charge.

VE: Yeah. He was always in, you know, on the top.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Top rung.

NW: Ray Milland would've been ninety now.

VE: [gasps]

NW: It was 1905 he was born.

VE: Well, he would, yeah.

VB: Mhm. Was he someone that you liked?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Was Ray Milland one of your favourites stars or--?

NW: He was in pictures a lot then. But I didn't see him a lot, you know. No.

VE: No, he was a bit of a lady's, lady's man.

NW: He made different pictures, didn't he?

VE: Yes.

NW: Like eh, them that you like.

VE: Yes. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

VE: Golden Earrings, that was a lovely film though. Beautiful film. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: What about Robert Montgomery?

NW: Robert Montgomery.

VE: Yeah, he was very good.

NW: I don't remember him.

VE: I remember him.

NW: No. I don't think I'd really seen him.

VE: No, he was in my kind a film. Erm, he always seemed to be the, erm, he never seemed to sort of make it right to the pinnacle. Eh, he was second rate.

NW: He used to be in films with like eh, Greta Garbo and Norma Shearer. Eh, Joan Crawford. We didn't go and see them, you know. We never went to see them.

VE: The Barretts of Wimpole Street. Yes.

NW: Fred MacMurray. Seen him a few times.

VE: Yeah. He was good. He used to be with Claudette Colbert quite a bit.

VB: Mhm.

NW: He'd by eighty-seven now.

VE: Mhm!

NW: Is he still living?

VE: Eh, I think he is!

NW: Eighty-seven, Fred MacMurray.

VB: Mhm.

NW: Now he was born in Ulverston. We were up there, eh, Lancaster, fortnight ago. Up eh, up to Lake District. That's eh, Stanley Laurel.

VB: Yeah. Do they have a museum to him? Is that right?

NW: Pardon?

VB: Is there a museum about him there?

NW: Museum?

VB: Yeah. Someone was saying.

NW: Where?

VB: In Ulverston?

NW: Oh, I've no idea.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Oh!

VB: Someone was telling me there was a museum to him.

NW: But, we just went up there by mistake. Went straight up the M6.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Instead of turning off for eh, for the coast.

VB: Yeah.

NW: You know. We finished up in Lancaster.

VB: [laughs]

VE: [laughs]

NW: Which is quite close to Ulverston.

VB: Yeah.

NW: They're good books these, aren't they?

VB: Mhm.

VE: They are. They are good books.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Dorris gave me one, but she'd cut endless pictures out. Torn all the backs off! I said, "Look at it!"

VB: [laughs]

NW: And here, this is eh, your friend, isn't it?

VE: Who?

NW: Nelson Eddy.

VE: Aw! Ooh, eh! Cut it out for Dorris at once!

VB: [laughs]

VE: Ooh, he's not so very old there either.

NW: Eh?

VE: He's not very old there either.

VB: I think that one's about 1932, something like that.

NW: I don't think I've ever seen her in pictures.

VE: Ooh!

NW: I've not, no.

VE: [reading] "Appeared in a society show called The Marriage Tax".

NW: [inaudible]

VE: I must remember that. "Later became a star in--" Yeah, she knew that. "Philadelphia Civic Opera Company". Oh, I didn't know he'd been in a society show, 'The Marriage Tax'. Got, he what? Got fired for neglecting his work in favour of music, oh! Oh, that was when he was a reporter. [laughs] He got sacked! [laughs] [pause 4 seconds]

NW: Gary Cooper, have we mentioned him?

VB: Yes.

NW: Have I mentioned him before? Yeah, I like Gary Cooper.

VB: Yeah. What was it about Gary Cooper--

NW: Sorry?

VB: What was it about Gary Cooper that made him--

NW: I used to like his pictures.

VB: One of your favourites?

NW: And eh, I liked him as a person.

VB: Yeah.

VE: I liked him as well.

VB: So, was it the personality? Was it his personality you liked?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Was it his personality you liked?

NW: Yeah. Oh yeah.

VE: I liked his, oh yes, he had a lovely personality.

NW: I mean some of these people today on there, they've eh, they [inaudible]. I mean eh, in this picture like eh, when you get on there today, you know, love.

VE: Yeah. Yeah.

NW: They're not eh... It's not like the old types, isn't it?

VE: No. It's like Dorris says, romance is gone.

NW: And today it's all eh... violence, isn't it? On there. All eh, not a lot of adventure. It's all explosions and stuff like that. Car chases.

VB: Do you think the stories were better in this sort of film?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Do you think they were better stories?

NW: When?

VB: In the thirties films.

NW: Oh yeah. Oh aye.

VB: Yeah.

VE: I mean they used to have a beginning, a middle, and an end.

NW: [inaudible]

VE: Yes, they have.

NW: Ah, aye, they were a lot better they were. We used to enjoy them. Probably you wouldn't, you know.

VB: Ah! I don't know.

VE: Oh, she liked eh--

NW: Eh?

VE: She liked Maytime. She liked Maytime.

VB: I did, it was great.

VE: Yeah, it was lovely.

VB: Thoroughly enjoyed it. And I've got a copy of it to see when I get home as well.

VE: Pardon?

VB: And I've got that copy of it to see when I go home as well.

VE: Oh yeah! It's lovely, oh.

VB: I'll think I'll have to invite one of my friends round to watch it. I don't think my husband would like it so much.

VE: Aw, don't think he would. No.

VB: It's not really a man's picture.

VE: No, it's not.

VB: Yeah.

VE: This is what it says. You know, it's not a man's picture. I mean, I like the westerns as well!

VB: Yeah.

VE: You know? I mean it wasn't just all ladies' films that I liked.

VB: No.

VE: I used to like being frightened, you know. Used to go and watch Frankenstein. And my friend used to be [makes face] "Tell me when he's gone off! Tell me when he's gone off!"

NW: Vera?

VE: Yes.

NW: Is that Bernard Miles there?

VE: [pause 4 seconds] It should tell you. No.

NW: Oh.

VE: No.

NW: Does it not look like him?

VE: No. It's Roland Young.

NW: Who?

VE: Roland Young.

NW: Oh really?

VE: Yes.

NW: I thought it were Bernard Miles.

VE: Bernard Miles is well behind that.

NW: He's what?

VE: Well behind that, Bernard Miles.

NW: Dead?

VE: No, he's way behind that time.

NW: Our [inaudible] you mean?

VE: Yeah.

NW: Oh, is he?

VB: That's a strange photo, isn't it?

VE: A what?

VB: It's rather a strange photo of Roland Young there. He's a bit like Bela Lugosi or something.

VE: Oh, I liked him.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Roland Young, he was very good.

VB: [pause 3 seconds] Did you like erm--

NW: Pardon?

VB: Did you like this sort of picture? That sort of picture, like this one, The Man Who Could Work Miracles.

NW: Have I seen it you say?

VB: Yeah.

NW: No.

VE: Did you like it? Did you like them kind of films?

NW: Not really. No.

VE: Was it Claude Rains? See, [laughs] I'm not bad in the films I've seen.

VB: [laughs]

NW: No, I don't think so.

VE: No, it was very good that.

VB: What about this one? The Ghost Goes West.

VE: Oh, that was very good. Oh, that were.

NW: Oh lovely, yes. Robertson Hare. Do you remember?

VE: "Oh calamity!"

VB: [laughs] What was it about Robertson Hare--

NW: Pardon?

VB: What was it about Robertson Hare that you liked?

NW: He were a bit of a comic, you know. He weren't outstanding, really. A 'B' comic, aye.

VE: See what I mean? [laughs] He was very good though. He was always eh, like sort of making mistakes.

NW: Now Richard Dix used to be in the westerns. Richard Dix.

VE: Yeah.

NW: Have I not mentioned him before?

VE: No.

NW: Eh?

VE: You may have. You may have.

NW: Yeah. Aye, he used to be in cowboys.

VB: So did he change? Did the sort of pictures he made, change then? 'Cause obviously he's not a cowboy there. Did he--

VE: Oh yes--

VB: Change?

VE: He was in other films.

VB: Yes.

VE: Yes, he was in other films, yeah.

VB: What about the cartoons?

NW: Pardon?

VB: Did you like the cartoons?

VE: Oh, I did, Looney Tunes.

NW: Eh? There weren't a lot about when we saw-

VE: There was!

NW: Not when we went, love.

VE: Donald Duck!

NW: Oh, that was only on two minutes that.

VE: And Looney Tunes!

NW: Who?

VE: Looney Tunes!

NW: Well we didn't see a lot of that, love.

VE: Oh well! I mean it was the Ranch House, wasn't it?

NW: Aye.

VB: [laughs]

VE: They were nearly all cowboys. You know, they used to call it the Ranch House. [laughs]

VB: That's interesting. So that explains why the cowboy films [laughs] were so popular.

VE: Are you coming to the Ranch House?

VB: Yeah.

VE: It never got its true title.

NW: I mean I don't remember seeing him in pictures, Lee Tracy. Did you?

VE: Who?

NW: Lee Tracy.

VE: Erm... [pause 3 seconds]

NW: Eh?

VE: No, no. He was probably--

NW: I remember seeing this fella. He took Charlie Chan off him, didn't he?

VE: Oh, was it Warner Oland?

NW: What?

VE: Warner Oland.

NW: Ah. Warner Oland.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Because the one who took over from him was John [J] Carrol Naish. He took the part of Charlie Chan [referring to the Charlie Chan series of films]. I think he died, actually.

VB: Mhm. What was he like as an actor?

VE: Who?

VB: Walter Oland.

VE: Warner Oland.

VB: Warner Oland.

VE: He was very good. Very, very good. Erm, he would have made a really good detective normally, I think. With the way he used to erm, detect his criminals, you know. 'Cause he was like a detective, in a way, you know. And then he got a young man, which he called his 'Number One Son'. He sort of supposedly had a great big family, you know. You only saw them occasionally like, with his wife.

NW: I don't remember him either. Do you?

VE: And the 'Number One Son'.

NW: Do you remember [inaudible]?

VE: No, no.

NW: I don't remember him.

VB: Mhm.

VE: They may have been eh, may have been pre '30 even, you know.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Unless it's got thirties on. You know, on the--

VB: Mhm.

VE: Has it got thirties on the--

VB: Yes. It's--

VE: Yeah. But eh, as I say, a lot of them didn't make it as stars, like you could say Clark Gable and Tyrone Power. Various stars. These were what I call, like Norman says, 'B' stars.

VB: Mhm.

VE: You know, Claudette Colbert, she seemed to go nicer.

NW: Eh?

VE: She seemed to go nicer when she got older.

NW: What?

VE: Claudette Colbert seemed to go nicer as she got older.

NW: Aye.

[pause 4 seconds]

VE: Oh!

VB: Katharine Hep-- oh Don Ameche. [laughs]

VE: Oh!

NW: Don Ame--

VE: Don Ameche.

NW: He's gone bald now. He's as bald as a badger now, him.

VE: And he's gone proper wizened.

NW: Aye.

VB: Aye, he was in that erm, Cocoon, wasn't he?

VE: That's right.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Look at him there. Oh, when you think about him there. Oh well we all go, don't we? We don't all just stay as we were.

VB: He's a handsome man.

NW: I wonder how much they used to get paid for each film these people. It wouldn't be a lot really then, would it? Not like today, you know.

VE: Oh Paul Muni!

NW: But eh, it shows them there with their houses, the stars' houses. Have you seen it?

VE: What?

NW: In there. When they're inside their own homes.

VE: No, haven't seen it.

NW: Aye.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Is that Vivien Leigh?

NW: Some nice homes, you know.

[pause 4 seconds]

VB: Did you talk much about the stars?

NW: Pardon?

VB: Did you and your friends talk much about the stars?

NW: Did we what, love?

VB: About the pictures.

VE: Did you ever talk about the film stars?

NW: Not really, no.

VB: No.

NW: Used to go and see them and then eh, gang around me home, you know, singing.

VE: Or they'd be shooting each other, you know.

NW: Oh aye.

VE: À la Tom Mix.

VB: Yeah.

VE: [laughs]

VB: What about the-- did you ever talk about the pictures, say the next day?

NW: What, after seeing them?

VB: Yeah.

NW: No. Of course, we're going back about ten or twelve year old, you know. No we didn't bother.

VB: That's interesting.

NW: Just went to see our picture then, eh--

VE: Oh, we used to. I used to come home.

NW: Pardon?

VE: I were Bette Davis me, when I come home. My dad used to say, "Oh, look! Her eyes have come out all organ stops." 'Cause she had big eyes, you know. "Put your eyes back, Bette." [laughs]

VB: It's interesting that though 'cause it sounds like, you know, there were differences in how girls behaved around the pictures and--

VE: Oh yeah. Oh yes, yeah.

VB: How the boys--

VE: 'Course the lads used to say, we used to say, "Oh, Clark Gable!" "Phoo! He's rubbish!"

VB: [laughs]

VE: [laughs] You know, rubbish!

NW: I remember, we went to the Royal because there was a good cowboy on, you know. Every Saturday, every Saturday afternoon, I think it was, was it tuppence then? Something like that.

VE: Tuppence, yeah.

NW: Less than one old pee [penny] today.

VE: Used to be tuppence at the very--

NW: Less than one new pee, sorry.

VE: Yeah, tuppence at the front. And then thruppence about four rows from the back, you know. If you were at the front you used to end up like this. [demonstrates craning neck]

VB: [laughs]

VE: And when you come to go out, "Oh".

NW: And then when you came out of the army, I think the best seats then, in the best circle, were about one [shilling] and nine [pence], weren't they?

VE: Yeah.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Yeah.

NW: Top price, one and ninepence. About nine pee today. Nine pee.

VB: Mhm.

VE: Very rare I went in the best seats.

NW: Sorry?

VE: Very rare I ever went in the best seats.

NW: [inaudible]

VE: I always used to go for the ninepence me.

NW: Oh yeah! Aye.

VE: That was my limit, ninepence. 'Cause it used to be sixpence, ninepence, and a shilling. [laughs]

NW: Yeah.

VE: That was we got older, you know.

NW: You wouldn't get up the front step today for that, would you?

VB: No.

VE: [laughs]

NW: [laughs; coughs]

VE: There isn't even a front step to get up there now, love.

VB: [laughs]

VE: They've all gone.

VB: Ah.

NW: [coughs]

VE: But it kept a lot of the kids, you know, off the streets. And I think if they had eh, film, you know, cinemas today, for the children, I think they'd be a lot better because they're bored. That's what's the matter with them, they've nothing to do.

NW: Are you going to ask other people questions about it?

VB: Yes, yes.

NW: What, in Bolton?

VB: Erm, in Bolton and also in Manchester.

NW: Manchester.

VB: Yeah, and in Glasgow.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Yeah.

NW: You'll be visiting their homes that kind of thing.

VB: Yes. Yeah, yeah.

NW: So, when does this trip finish?

VB: Well, it's a two-year project so it'll be running till '96.

NW: Yeah.

VB: Is that right? Yeah, '96. Erm--

NW: So, when do you finish university?

VB: Well, I've finished, I've finished the university.

NW: Oh, you've finished, have you?

VB: Yeah. This is my work.

NW: So you'll be going back home to Glasgow after?

VB: Yes, yeah. Well, I'm going-- [pause 3 seconds] when I'm finished, I'm going back to Glasgow on Thursday. And then at the beginning of July, I'm going down to London.

NW: Down where?

VB: To London.

VE: London.

NW: London.

VB: Yeah.

NW: Going to London. Where? What part of London?

VB: North London.

NW: Where?

VB: North London, Harrow.

VE: North. Harrow.

NW: Oh, Harrow, yes. Middlesex?

VB: Yeah, yeah. So, I'll be doing the same thing there.

NW: How long do you stay there?

VB: Eh, about a month. Yeah.

NW: Mhm. So, you get about then?

VB: Yeah.

NW: How do you, you've no vehicle have you not?

VB: No.

NW: No car.

VB: I don't, no.

NW: Can you drive?

VB: I'm learning to drive just now.

NW: Should get yourself a mini or something like that. Save all this travelling, won't it?

VE: Oh yes. I'm keeping a mini on the road as well.

VB: [laughs]

VE: It's easier to have a car than to keep it going.

NW: Does your husband have a car?

VB: No, he doesn't, no. No, no.

VE: Can't afford one yet.

NW: Sorry?

VE: They can't afford one yet.

NW: He can drive though?

VB: No.

NW: No?

VB: No. But as I say I'm learning and I'm hoping to maybe get a car later in the 00:52:00year. If I can afford it. [laughs]

VE: This is it.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Can't afford to cough today.

NW: I mean eh, Vera goes to her friend in Westhoughton

VE: Dorris.

NW: How long would it take you to get there from here?

VE: About half an hour.

NW: How long?

VE: About half an hour.

NW: Half an hour. Can you do it in half an hour?

VE: Oh yeah, yeah. If there's a bus in. Yes, about half an hour. Roughly, isn't it?

VB: About that. Yeah.

NW: How long did it take you by train to Manchester, about twenty minutes?

VB: Erm, about twenty minutes.

NW: Do you go to Oxford Road?

VB: Yes.

NW: Yeah. It used to be closed at one time that.

VB: Was it?

NW: And then they reopened it.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Mhm.

NW: I think they've refurbished it all, rebuilt it.

VB: Yeah. It looks very, you know, as if it has been done quite recently.

NW: It used to be a dismal station that.

VE: Oh, it were.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Terrible.

VB: Really?

VE: Very depressing.

NW: Is Victoria still open?

VB: I think so, I think so.

NW: Yeah. There used to be Victoria, Piccadilly and Oxford Road, they're still open.

VB: Yeah.

VE: And is your college near the station?

VB: Erm, yes, it's not far.

VE: Is it not so far?

VB: Yeah, yeah. Oxford Road is handy for that.

VE: That's what I meant, you know. Was it near to...

VB: Yeah.

VE: Do you actually stay in the college?

VB: Yes, I'm staying there just now. Erm, they have a, what they call a guest wing [laughs] for the student halls.

VE: Is it like a shoebox?

VB: It is, yeah.

VE: [laughs]

VB: The only difference is I think the carpet's a bit better.

VE: A bit better quality, yeah.

VB: Nicer curtains. But it's [laughs] it's the basic thing, you know. It's eh, no luxury. That's all they'll pay for me though, so can't complain. [laughs]

VE: Oh! Show us that little piece out of the paper that you've just shown me. About that boy. This is [inadible]

NW: Yeah. This is eh, '35, that's '38.

VE: Ah, that's why I don't know half of them.

VB: Yeah.

VE: These are the ones I know better from, you know.

VB: Yeah.

VE: Well, I mean, eh, Shirley Temple's from about '36.

VB: Oh!

VE: Now read that, I could wring his damn neck for him.

VB: [reading] "Teenage tearaway awarded £5000 to sue education bosses."

VE: It doesn't ring to me that.

VB: Strange, isn't it?

VE: He's a little sod, I swear it. He don't look the part.

VB: No. A hundred convictions.

VE: Yeah.

VB: Fifteen years old.

VE: Yeah.

NW: It's coming to something when [inaudible].

VB: It's terrible, yeah.

VE: Didn't he put a girl in the family way?

NW: Sorry?

VE: Didn't he put a girl in the family way?

NW: I don't know.

VE: It's not on there, is it?

NW: I don't know. What?

VB: [laughs] It'll be all right. Won't go any further.

NW: I don't know.

VB: I'll turn off for a minute if you'd prefer. Shall I turn it off while we're talking about this?

NW: Uhuh.

[recording paused]

[recording started]

VE: And Charles Laughton was the father.

NW: [singing in background]

VE: Oh, it was a good film that, as well.

NW: Do you want your tea now?

VB: That'd be lovely, yes.

NW: Do you want your tea, love?

VB: I wonder if I could use your bathroom?

NW: Sorry?

VB: Can I use your bathroom?

VE: Yeah, course you can yeah. Top of the stairs.

VB: Right.

VE: She wants to go to the toil--

[recording paused]

[recording started]

VE: Conrad Veidt, he was another good one. Now he always took

NM: All right over there?

VE: He always took Germans off. That wasn't my thing.

VB: Yes, you were saying, yes.

VE: Those were a lot of the films I've seen.

VB: Right. Goodness me. It's quite some list.

VE: There's only a few there.

VB: [gasps]

VE: Oh and the Marx Brothers.

VB: Stella, Stella Dallas. I'm sure I've seen that. But I can't remember it.

VE: Aw! That was a good film. She was a mill girl and the boss fell for her. And they got married but she was a little bit on the common side, you know. Alan Hale was in it! He was the uncle, supposed to be the uncle in it. And this girl, eh, realised that they were common, when she saw her father.

VB: Right.

VE: Then she met this boy. But, Barbara Stanwyck, was Stella Dallas in the one I saw. They'd done it twice. I think the second one was just called Stella, the second one. [referring to the 1990 version] But, at the very end, this girl, the daughter, she stood back for her. But at the very end--

NW: Here's your cuppa.

VB: That's lovely, thanks.

VE: She was getting married, and her father was giving her away and she came out of the church. And her mother was looking at her, crying through the railings, you know. Because, I mean it was her daughter, you know, but she said, "I won't stand in your way." Her father went and he said, "Can I take her?" I think the father was, if I'm not mistaken was eh, John Boles, I think. [pause 3 seconds] Think it was John Boles. But she was like a common mill worker, you know.

VB: Yes.

VE: And he fell for her, course. Now where are you, Cary Grant? Leslie Howard, he was another one. Oh, he was marvellous in The Scarlet Pimpernel, him. In all of them. Oh, where have you gone? Cary Grant. Where? Oh, he's here. Wait a minute. Golden Dawn. I must remember that. Golden Dawn. I'll write that down.

VB: Right.

VE: See if that could be in, possibly could be in, excuse me.

VB: I see you've got Lost Horizon there as well.

VE: Oh! Oh, that was a lovely--

[End of Side B]

[End of Tape One]

[Start of Tape Two]

[Start of Side A]

VB: You were saying about Lost Horizon. It was about the--

VE: [inaudible].

VB: Right.

VE: Golden Dawn, I must find out what that film was. Golden Dawn. Erm, they got grounded and eh, they found this place and it was called Shangri-La [referring to Lost Horizon]. And it was where these Tibetan monks lived and the people that lived there never grew old. They were as they were, you know. And of course, they went there over these eh, 00:59:00snow-capped mountains and that until they found this gorgeous place. Nobody was ever sick or anything like that. They'd no pain or anything. And one or two of them decided when they'd been there a bit, that they were going to go back. Ronald Colman was one of them. He said, "I'm going back" you know. Because, obviously 'cause people, I think he was a writer. And he said, "People will want to know where I am." Anyway, he was one that came back. And one of the young men that was with the party, fell in love with this girl. I think it was Margo. [kitchen background noise] And she was about twenty-five, in the film. And she said she wanted to go back with him.

VB: Mhm.

VE: But the old man, the monk that was the ruler of this place, told Ronald Colman, he said, "If she goes beyond that point, that will be it. She will age." But she went with them and when they got beyond this certain point, she started ageing. All until she was like a little, just a little frame. And course this lad was shocked, you see. And he, in shock, was staggering away from her and he fell over--

NW: [inaudible]

VE: The precipice. So, he went and of course Ronald Colman came home. And when he'd sorted things out, he went back. And erm, Thomas Mitchell stayed there. He was a drunkard and he said, "Well, I've nothing to go back for, I might as well stay here where I'm healthy," and he were coughing and spluttering. And Edward 01:01:00Everett Horton was a professor. Eh, he collected, I think he collected like fossils and stones and that. So he stayed there. And then, of course, erm, when Ronald Colman went back, he caught up with the woman that he'd fallen for.

VB: Right. [laughs]

VE: Well you see, so she wouldn't grow old and he wouldn't grow old, 'cause they stayed there. Oh, but it was a wonderful film.

VB: Wonderful story as you describe it.

VE: It was. It was really good.

VB: Yeah.

VE: You know? 'Cause all the reporters came out as well when he came back, said, "Oh, where have you been? Where have you been?" "Oh", he says, "I don't really know where it was" you know. Just got grounded and they didn't know where they were. They were just sort of ambling about and then they'd come across this ledge. And they all looked over and this place was like all sunny and, you know, like sort of erm, all sunbeams, sort of, enlightened it, you know. Aw, It was 01:02:00really lovely. And they all went "Oh! What a wonderful place!" And it was warm, you see. Well they had come from snow along these ledges, up in the Tibetan mountains. And they got to this, oh, a lovely place. And there was fountains, and exotic flowers. "Well", he said, "we can't really tell you but the place is called Shangri-La."

VB: Yeah. [pause 10 seconds; kitchen noise]

NW: There you are.

VE: Oh yes, yes. Erm, I'll put these. Do you want to put these in your bag or--

VB: Erm, I might as well. Just pop them in.

VE: Yeah, go on. [pause 17 seconds] You got the brussels up. I don't want you to 01:03:00break your neck. You got the brussels up.

VB: Oh right. [laughs]

VE: [laughs] I don't mean the place Brussels.

VB: No. [laughs]

VE: Sorry, love. There you are.

VB: This looks lovely.

VE: There you are.

VB: It looks delicious, really does. Mhm.

VE: Oh attack it then. Go on, attack it.

VB: [laughs] That's great. Thanks very much.

VE: Whatever, whatever. Salt.

[recording stops] [End of Interview]