Glenwood Lodge, Glasgow (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: GL-95-013AT002

* CCINTB Transcript ID: 95-13-11a-aak

* Tapes: GL-95-013OT002

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-8

* Length: 0:57:43

* Castlemilk, Glasgow, 13 February 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Patrick McCambridge, Tommy Dunn, Tommy Adams, Sarah Louise Gale and Nancy Keyte

* Transcribed by Valentina Bold/Standardised by Julia McDowell

* PM=Patrick McCambridge/ TD=Tommy Dunn/ TA=Tommy Adams/ SG=Sarah Louise Gale/ NK=Nancy Keyte/ MW=Marion Walsh (carer)/ VB=Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second interview of two with Patrick McCambridge, Tommy Dunn, Tommy Adams, Sarah Louise Gale and Nancy Keyte of Glenwood Lodge; Sound Quality: Good; this interview was originally transcribed in a phonetic manner; the original phonetic version can be accessed through our physical collection - please contact Lancaster University Library for details.

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[Start of Tape]

[Start of Side A]

[VB tape introduction]

VB: So, as I say, it was, I really appreciated your letting me come to talk to you the other time 'cause I found it really interesting, the things you were saying about, about the cinema.

TA: That means you believed all our lies then! [referring to first interview]

VB: I believed you [laughs], I'll believe anything to, erm, but there was a couple of things that I didn't get a chance to talk about so that's why I was coming back to pick up a few things that you said. Erm, and, just before we start talking about cinema again, one thing I forgot to ask was, when everyone, when you stopped working, 'cause I was interested in the year you stopped working. How long you've been retired or--?

PM: [laughs] Well, [inaudible] stop.

VB: Ah right. [laughs]

SG: When?

PM: I retired at sixty-five, and I'm nearly seventy-one soon.

VB: Right. What about yourself, Sarah, when did you stop working?

SG: A long time, dear. I just remember it was a long time. During the war times--

VB: Right.

SG: They were good days then, anyway dear.

VB: 'Cause I remember you said you were in the Land Army.

SG: Yes I was, dear. And I loved my work too.

VB: I mean, as I say, I thought it was interesting the different sort of work people had done, 'cause it's like-

TA: There was plenty of work about then. We were talking about Tommy Dunn--

SG: [inaudible; overtalking], dear.

TA: Tommy Dunn told me that he was a long-distance driver. Tommy Dunn, for a long time.

SG: Eh, Tommy.

VB: When did you stop working, Tommy?

TD: Oh, it must've been five years ago.

VB: Five years. Right.

TD: I was tired.

VB: I'll bet, [laughs] I'll bet you were. And was, was it lorries that you drove?

TD: Mhm?

VB: Was it lorries that your drove or--?

PM: Actually he's the same job as me. I was a driver and all--

VB: Oh right!

PM: Long-distance, aye, coaches, buses--

VB: Ah.

PM: [Ferry?] lorries.

TD: I was [in with the?] horses, driving cars, lorries [inaudible]?

VB: Did you work on the farms or something then, when you started?

TD: I can't hear you.

VB: What was the first job you did? You said you drove horses as well.

TD: You mean when I left the school?

VB: Aye.

TD: Erm?

VB: Yeah, when you left, when you left school.

TD: When I left school. When I left school it would be [pause 3 seconds] 1914, 1916. Something like that. That was before your time.

VB: Quite a bit before my time. It's amazing to hear you talk about that far 00:03:00back, and--

TD: [inaudible].

VB: And how much were you earning then, just out of interest? How much did you earn in that first job?

TD: This would have been about a pound or thirty bob.

VB: Right. It must have seemed like a lot then--

TA: Oh aye.

VB: It was a long time ago.

PM: Money seemed to go a lot further then. Things were a lot cheaper, you know.

VB: Aye. Yeah.

TD: At that time the majority of it was horse-drawn traffic, there was very few cars, and they was all driven by women!

VB: Really?

TD: Because--

NK: That's right.

TD: Because, eh, the men were all at the front.

VB: Of course. [pause 3 seconds]

TD: I first went, eh, they engaged woman driver at Cooper's. I don't know whether that's still going now or no--

PM: Cooper's Tea?

TD: Mhm?

PM: You probably mean that Cooper's Tea?

TD: Aye. Cooper, there--

PM: Aye--

TD: They're [inaudible]--

PM: [Sign?]. They're still going in--

TD: They were the first to start--

TA: Maybe five years ago now--

TD: They used to have women drivers. And the Corporation started. And the jars [inaudible].

VB: Right.

PM: The jeely [jam] jars, that's what they called them.

VB: That brings us back to the cinema again, doesn't it?

PM: [laughs] Aye.

VB: I mean, talking about the jeely, the jeely jars.

PM: That was the slang name for cars, cars as we called them.

VB: Is that right?

PM: Jeely jars, cars! Now you understand! [laughs]

VB: Aye, I get that! [laughs] That's amazing. [pause 2 seconds] Can I ask you 00:05:00Sarah, as well, 'cause, erm, when was it that you stopped working?

SG: It was that long ago that I forget.

TD: Maybe [you should mention] when you start work.

SG: Eh?

TD: You're meant to say when you used to start work.

VB: I know, I know you did quite a few different jobs from what you were saying the last time.

SG: Oh aye, I worked at the Rolls Royce.

VB: Did you work in Rolls Royce? Aye.

SG: Thornliebank, there.

VB: Right.

SG: Another factory.

VB: Was that during the war as well, or--? 'Cause I know that--

SG: During the war at Thornliebank.

VB: Aye. 'Cause you were saying you'd worked in a baker's as well.

SG: Aye, I worked in a baker's a wee while.

VB: Aye. So were you working right through really, till--

SG: What dear?

VB: Did you work right up till you were retiring then?

SG: Aye.

[knock at the door; MW enters and takes seat]

VB: And Tommy, what about yourself?

TA: I was working down at the shipyards [inaudible]. In Govan there was Harland's [referring to Harland & Wolff Ltd], Harland's--

SG: That's three.

TA: [inaudible; overtalking] Road. Harland's, Fairfield and Stephen's was in Linthouse. There were three of them on Govan Road. Harland's was the first to shut up at the beginning, and then I heard that Stephen's shipyard had went just after

TD: [inaudible].

TA: That shut up and that only left Fairfield.

VB: Uhuh.

TA: The government cut down labour levels, tradesmen levels, and now Fairfield is still there. But it's a Swedish firm that's taken it over.

VB: Right. So it's all changed a lot since you were there.

TA: It's all changed. At that time, people could go down to the shipyards. And say they had a trade, any trade at all, plumber, [inaudible], plumbers, joiners, 00:07:00engineers, we were all tradesmen then.

VB: Right.

TA: You started training when you were sixteen. When you were twenty-one you got a [inaudible] paper, so there we are now.

VB: So was that you in there right up to when you retired at sixty-five?

TA: [You couldn't stop?].

VB: Aye.

TA: In the shipyards. At that time, they came at half-past two on a Friday, straight after work, half-past two, you finished up, three [you went out of work?] [inaudible] pay out of the office. [inaudible] Three. [inaudible]. What you would usually get.

MW: Och aye.

TA: You know.

VB: I see.

TD: At one time you couldn't go down the Clyde in a river steamer, the noise that the river made was deafening. Now you can't hear a thing 'cause it's all done on machinery. But at that time it was done by hand. [pause 2 seconds] It's a great change. The river was busy all the time with boats of all descriptions, boats that went all over the world, India and wherever else. There was a crane there, the Stobcross Crane, that's still there, that could lift an engine onto the boat. Boat comes up to Finnieston [engine room?] [inaudible] railway. The firm, N B Locomotive, the one at Springburn, they built them there, the engines 00:09:00and lorries. Pickfords taking down to the dock, and up to the crane, on board it. You'd never see that now.

VB: It's amazing to hear you describe it. Because it is so different to, as you say, what it's like now. Erm, it really is.

TA: Tommy Dunn says that crane is still there. It's a landmark. It's no longer working now. The Finnieston crane.

TD: It's rusting, it's rusting now.

TA: Well, [inaudible] they've painted it. They reckon it's a landmark.

VB: [inaudible]. Something that no one had experienced [now?], you were saying yourself. One thing that I brought along actually which kind of ties in with that, that I thought you might be interested in was, erm, a couple of books of 00:10:00films of the thirties which, I thought, you might like to have a look at. Erm, so, I don't know how to go about this, 'cause there's five of us and I've only got two books of us but maybe I'll pass, pass one to you and-- [passing to SG]

SG: Aye.

VB: I thought you might like perhaps to see these erm--

NK: [reading] "Stars and Films of 1938".

SG: Aw, he was a good actor, him.

VB: Who's that you've got there.

NK: Norma Shearer?

ND: [inaudible].

SG: Aye.

PM: Charles.

SG: Charles Laughton.

VB: 'Cause there were a lot of the stars that you mentioned last time that, that we didn't really have a chance to talk about.

SG: Mhm.

VB: In great depth, you know? Erm, and, and I was thinking of you, Nancy there--

NK: Mhm, 'cause a lot of them's dead now, some of them.

VB: Aye.

SG: [shows photo to NK]

NK: Aye.

VB: Who's that.

SG: Robert Donat.

VB: Robert Donat?

SG: Oh, he's always good, him.

VB: What was it you liked about him?

SG: I don't know. His films is good.

[pause 1 second]

PM: [smiling] Tell the truth!

VB: [laughs]

SG: [inaudible]

VB: He's a fine looking man as well, isn't he?

SG: Yes he is.

MW: He was only seen in one film during 1937, Knight Without Armour.

NK: Oh --

MW: In which he co-starred with Marlene Dietrich.

NK: Oh aye.

PM: The German star.

VB: Did you?

SG: She's a bit like her. [indicating photographs]

NK: Marlene Dietrich.

VB: Did you like Marlene Dietrich. Was she?

SG: Oh aye.

NK: Oh no!

SG: Clark Gable was good.

NB: I liked him.

PM: Marilyn Dirt Track they called her.

SG: [inaudible] What?

TA: [laughs] Marilyn Dirt Track? I never heard that!

SG: Marilyn Dirt.

PM: Marilyn Dirt Track, aye!

SG: Dirt Track?

PM: She was a German star.

SG: Aye, the German [inaudible].

VB: Was she quite popular?

TA: Pardon?

VB: Was she very popular.

TA: Oh aye.

NK: Aye.

TA: She was.

NK: She was.

PM: She was kind of slinky, you know?

NK: Here's Charlie Chaplin. He was good.

PM: "Come up and see me sometime", sort of like Greta Garbo.

NK: She was good too. She was good and all.

VB: Who's that you've got there? That isn't [inaudible; overtalking], is it?

NK: They were all good. Robert Taylor.

TD: Never heard of him.

PM: Fifty bob tailors in Glasgow!

NK: Oh, he hasn't heard of him.

SG: Robert Taylor.

PM: Nancy, we've got fifty bob tailors in Glasgow!

NK: Aye. [general laughter] Aye years ago!

PM: I never said when, I only say we had them.

MW: Tommy really liked, erm, Gene Kelly.

SG: Oh, he's a lovely dancer, him.

MW: Didn't you Tommy? You think he was a good dancer. Good with his feet.

NK: Aye.

TD: Oh aye, so he was [one of the world's best?].

NK: [Oh there's?] [inaudible].

VB: [inaudible].

SG: Fred Astaire too.

VB: Aye. I was going to ask, if you liked Fred Astaire and Ginger Rogers as well.

SG: Yes.

NK: What?

VB: Did you like Fred Astaire as well or?

SG: Good dancer.

VB: [speaking louder] Fred Astaire.

NK: That was the dancer?

MW: [loudly] Did you like Fred Astaire?

TD: Aw, Fred Astaire wasn't too bad, and then we had one bloke, guy called Jack Buchanan?

SG: Aye.

NK: Aye, he was good.

TD: He was a matinee idol, at that time.

NK: [looking at book] Oh, Charles Laughton, he was.

TD: He's dead now.

SG: There's Freddie there, and Ginger.

PM: Aye.

VB: Did you like Astaire and Rogers yourself, Sarah?

SG: Do you want it? [holding out book]

VB: No, I'm saying did you like, did you like Astaire and Rogers? Were they?

SG: Oh well, they [inaudible; overtalking], they were good.

PM: There he is.

NK: A thing we used to do was tap dancing on the back, near the washing house.

VB: Really?

NK: [Of a night?] Oh aye.

[inaudible; overtalking]

VB: Was that you trying to be like them, then?

NK: Och aye--

TA: You copied them.

NK: And if you, I tell you one or two played with an old fiddle. [pause 1 second]

TA: There won't be many of they books about.

VB: Naw.

MW: I was going to say, I've got quite a lot of film books at [inaudible].

VB: Did you like, 'cause I was thinking, em, Top Hat was on the TV quite recently, did you like--

TA: Ginger Rogers?

VB: Aye.

TA: Fred Astaire.

SG: Oh aye, I watched it.

NK: Deanna Durbin.

TA: There she is there, [showing photo to others] Ginger.

NK: Aye.

TD: I tell you what I didn't like about Fred Astaire, he was with his stick, he used, he always had a walking stick. [pause 2 seconds]

NK: He wasn't lame or nothing, Fred Astaire.

TD: Gene Kelly never used a stick.

NK: Didn't he?

VB: Do you think Gene Kelly was a better dancer than Fred Astaire? Or?

TD: What?

VB: [louder] Did you think Gene Kelly was a better dancer than Fred Astaire?

TD: I would say so.

VB: Yeah.

TD: Because there was too much fancy work erm--

NK: Whoooh, [Frank?], ohh! [whistles]

TD: Fred Astaire's way with his walking stick.

NK: [whistles]

MW: He was handsome. Tyrone Power.

VB: Who's this?

MW: Tyrone Power.

NK: [whistles] Oh Tyrone Power. Mhm!

TA: That Tyrone.

NK: Mhm!

MW: Fancied him, eh!

NK: Aye! He was one of the top!

TA: Nancy, [inaudible] about now.

NK: Bette Davis.

SG: Oh! She's good. [pause 2 seconds] She always had bad parts, didn't she?

VB: Did you like her films, or--?

SG: Ayyee, sometimes they were better. [pause 2 seconds] Mind--

NK: I liked James Cagney best.

SG: Eh?

NK: I liked him, I thought he was a great actor.

SG: With his father there [pointing at photograph in book].

PM: Tough guy.

VB: What was it about James Cagney that you liked?

TD: [inaudible] give me the works.

NK: Oh, I [with emphasis] don't know, he was the tough guy.

TD: I [inaudible] give me the works.

NK: Eh?

TD: That's what, Cagney always said that.

NK: What?

TD: Come on and I'll tell you.

SG: That's interesting, isn't it.

TD: [inaudible].

TA: Cagney started off as a dance man, did you know that?

VB: You mentioned that, did, did you mention Yankee Doodle Dandy, I think?

TA: Aye!

NK: "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy"! [referring to lyrics from song]

[multiple voices at once]

VB: Do you think that was him at his best?

[multiple voices at once]

NK: Aye.

PM: That was at the start of his career, you know, he was a song and dance man and he developed something else into films.

VB: Aye.

NK: "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy!"

TA: He became a hard man, you know.

VB: Aye. Do you think he was a good dancer?

TA: Aye, he was a good dancer. No doubt about that. I seen him in one of his wife's films [possibly referring to Jeanne Cagney, sister of James], in that Yankee Doodle Dandy. He was really good in that.

MW: Marla Shelton.

PM: Who?

MW: Marla Shelton.

SG: [singing] "I'm a Yankee Doodle Dandy".

MW: Joanne Bennett [referring to Joan Bennett].

NK: Joan Bennett, you mean? Where Carole Lombard?

VB: Maybe--

PM: [laughs]

VB: I mean, Tommy, what did you think of James Cagney as a dancer?

TD: He was pretty good, Cagney, but the only fault that I could find with him, he 00:16:00held himself very stiff.

SG: Oh there's my hero [pointing at photograph].

PM: Nancy.

TD: He never bent his legs, they were kept straight all the time.

SG: My hero, see Nancy, there a nice one there.

NK: There's ma hero, Spencer Tracy! [pause 2 seconds]

VB: What was it about Spencer Tracy that--?

NK: Oh, I don't know, he's, he's a good actor.

SG: I didn't see him.

VB: Were there any of his films you think were his best? Or?

SG: Oh, I forget their names.

TD: I think San Francisco was the best one he was in. [pause 1 second] Did you see San Francisco?

NK: Aye, it was good, wasn't it?

TD: Aye.

VB: Can you tell me about it, what, what was it about?

NK: The earthquake.

SG: The earthquake.

PM: Earthquakes. Clark Gable.

VB: Aye, I, I know the one you mean now, when you say that.

TD: Clark Gable and Spencer Tracy. [pause 1 second] It was a screen spectacular.

NK: Jean Arthur. [looking at book]

TD: Ye saw all the buildings coming down in it.

NK: Aye, it was well acted, wasn't it?

TD: And the ground all opening up. I don't know how they made that picture at all.

NK: It was marvellous how they made it. Who's she? Jean, Jean what?

MW: Jean Hammill.

VB: I mean, you mentioned a number of stars, and I took a note of some of them. I mean, another one was--

SG: Oh, there's my hero! Fredric March!

VB: Humphrey Bogart and Pat O'Brien.

PM: Oh, Bogey, aye.

NK: Casablanca.

VB: Aye.

PM: Pat O'Brien acted a lot of times with Cagney.

TD: Aye, he was a star, Humphrey Bogart.

VB: Yeah.

NK: Eh?

TD: Casablanca.

NK: Aye.

VB: That's right. 'Cause I mean, they were in quite a few films together, weren't they?

TA: Aye.

VB: Like the--

TA: Jimmy Cagney, Pat O'Brien and Frank McHugh, Margaret Lindsay [laughs]. Ye got a round up!

VB: I mean, when you were talking, it seemed like a lot of the stars you were talking about, I mean, they weren't necessarily the big stars but, there seemed to be a lot of really good--

TA: Oh there were.

VB: Actors.

PM: That become big stars at the time.

VB: Aye.

PM: You see most of them, they're just getting by they were sort of.

NK: They were good too, weren't they? [showing photograph]

VB: Yeah.

NK: They were good.

VB: What about Edward G. Robinson?

NK: Myrna Loy and William Powell.

TA: Oh the wee gangster man.

PM: That's right. Edward G.! [imitating high-pitched voice] "Yeah, what did you say?"

[pause 1 second]

TA: [inaudible] There was Pat O'Brien. He acted a lot of films with Cagney.

NK: Don Ameche.

TA: They're all dead now.

MW: Mhm.

TA: Pat O'Brien, Spencer Tracy.

NK: Oh there's old George Formby.

TA: Humphrey Bogart.

[inaudible; overtalking]

PM: You see that film [inaudible; overtalking]?

TD: He was the priest [probably referring to Angels with Dirty Faces]

NK: Who? O'Brien?

TD: O'Brien.

NK: Aye, that's right.

[pause 1 second]

TD: I was coming up West Nile Street once, and I was on a bus, and I saw her, this woman's walking up, and I says, "That's quite like Eleanor Powell!" And when I got up at the top of the street, her name was up on the bills at the Empire, she was at the Empire and I didn't know, of course, before that. [pause 1 second] I knew who I'd seen.

MW: Mhm.

TD: They have marvellous stars up there. They had a stage oh, beneath her dancing, and Eleanor Powell was the full time, I think it was generally two hours, that, that they gave their hall. I don't know exactly what time for one room, one engagement, you don't always, they don't do it all night but she did. [pause 1 second] You'd get two or three acts, eh, to fill the time but she did it herself. Fantastic dancer. She's dead too.

[pause 1 second]

VB: That's amazing. She must have had so much energy to--

TD: What?

VB: She must have had so much energy to, as you say, fill a whole night with.

TD: She was a fantastic dancer. She was both in the films.

NK: Aye.

TD: And in real life. I mind [remember] her pictures.

NK: That's more like her there.

TA: You were talking there about Edward G.

VB: Aye.

TA: I met him in, in New York in, in the Hollywood Canteen. [pause 1 second] '42, '43. And, eh, Carole Lombard, I also met her as well! [laughs]

VB: Wow!

PM: I met them through the Forces like.

VB: Right!

PM: I was in the Merchant Navy at that time.

TD: There were a lot of these great dancers in America. Eh, Ruby Keeler. [pause 1 second] There was a gangster hunting her, Al Jolson, 'cause he wouldn't leave Ruby Keeler alone and then this, eh, Al Capone ran, it changed him. These are things you don't hear about.

VB: That's amazing.

TD: Aye!

VB: That's amazing. How did you find out about this sort of stuff? Was it in the--?

TD: Ye read your [inaudible], if you, you'd catch it in the papers. I'm 00:21:00always reading.

VB: Did you, did you--

TD: Mhm?

VB: Did you read any of the movie magazines? Things like the 'Picturegoer' or 'Film Weekly', or?

SG: Oh, I [with emphasis] used to read the 'Picturegoer'. The 'Picturegoer' I used to get.

VB: Aye. [pause 1 second] A thing I was interested about, in, did you ever pass it on to anyone else, 'cause, or did you keep it to yourself?

SG: I just kept it to myself.

VB: Aye, it's just 'cause I was talking to somebody else that said they used to get them off someone on.

SG: A friend or. [looking at photograph] That's not like Barbara Stanwyck. [pause 1 second] Isn't it no?

MW: It's because it's a coloured--

VB: That's amazing, when you're talking about seeing the stars and meeting the stars.

PM: Aye, meeting.

MW: Who did you say Patrick, it was, you met?

NK: Oh, Charles Boyer, God, That would take you back.

PM: Who did I meet? Erm, Edward G.

NK: Edward G.? Aw, I liked him.

SG: Edward G. Robinson?

VB: What was he, what was he like?

SG: Oh he was good.

PM: He's not as small as he looks, he's about five foot ten.

NK: Is he?

PM: Aye! [laughs] I was very surprised when I met him. Because I thought, erm--

VB: You think of him as being--

PM: Aye! He gives you that impression on the films that he's small. But he's no.

VB: He's sort of stocky, isn't he.

PM: Oh aye, he's stocky, aye.

NK: Mhm. [pause 1 second] Charles Boyer

PM: Oh aye, the great lover from France.

MW: [laughs]

VB: I mean, I was also wanting to ask you a bit more, not just about the stars, and the movies, but about some of the picture houses that you mentioned, erm, 'cause, 'cause I mean there was a lot that, that came up. I mean, you were talking about the, the cinemas in, in Govan, Tommy.

TA: Aye, aye. Well, erm, every area had three or four cinemas. In Govan alone there was the Plaza, the Lyceum and the Vogue. The Vogue was the last one to be b, be built for Govan. [coughs]

VB: Mhm.

TA: They were the three in Govan.

VB: I see, what what were they like? I mean, what was the Plaza like inside, was it.

TA: Ooh, it was quite comfortable inside, they were good cinemas.

VB: Aye.

PM: When I stayed in Partick, that's the West End, they had seven cinemas.

NK: Jeez!

PM: All within a stone's throw of each other, you know? It's not as if you had to walk miles to get to them. Between them. Round the corner you had the Western, up to the Grosvenor, to the Hillhead, that was another street away. The Hillhead Salon they called it, that was kind of up the road, you know.

VB: Is that right?

PM: That's right. [laughs] Oh aye. That was it, you went there on Sundays. Every [inaudible], you had to get on your suede shoes.

VB: Right. [inaudible; overtalking]

PM: Your shoes, your Sunday wear.

VB: 'Cause, that's the one that's just closed down, isn't it, the one in Hillhead?

PM: Oh aye, it's changed now. The Grosvenor was in Byres Road, and the Hillhead was in Vinicombe Street.

VB: Yeah. 'Cause I've been inside that and it's very--

PM: Aye.

VB: Fancy.

PM: Oh, it's years and years ago since I've been in.

VB: Aye.

PM: And I stayed [lived] in that area, you know?

VB: 'Cause--

TA: You probably don't remember this. In Eglinton Street, they got the first film from Hollywood. The Coliseum, a couple of steps along was the Bedford.

NK: Aye.

TA: [pause 2 seconds] Next door to each other, and they were always packed out.

TD: Do you remember they showed the talking pictures?

TA: That's right, the Coliseum and the Bedford.

TD: The Coliseum was the first to show a--

VB: What was the Coliseum like as a cinema? Was it a, was it a fancy one or was it?

TD: It was a variety theatre, that's the only description I can give you.

VB: So it had?

TD: It had everything in it, [pause 2 seconds] Chung Ling Soo used to come up to it, you've definitely heard of him. He was, he toured China, he never spoke, I'm aware he came from Aberdeen. But if they'd known he was there, if they'd known he wasn't a Chinaman, they would have killed him. Because they were nobody allowed into China at that time. No, they'd had built the Great Wall of China, now, it's built to keep other people out.

VB: Right.

TD: But now they can get in, they're more civilised now, but at that time they couldn't.

TA: [laughs] You're going away back now.

VB: Aye

TD: Well, Chung Ling Soo was touring, eh, China as a Chinaman. [pause 1 second] But if they'd known he was an Aberdonian, he'd had it! [laughs]

VB: [laughs] That's amazing! 'Cause I mean it, were there other cinemas that were like that? That were variety as well? Or was it just the Coliseum? Or?

PM: Well, they used to have one in Partick, called the Standard.

[knock at the door; tea and coffee arrives]

VB: Right.

PM: Friday and Saturday night they had variety turns. Some [inaudible] they'd get ten minutes and then there was somebody up on the stage singing and dancing or whatever.

VB: Oh, I see.

NK: [inaudible]

PM: And it cost you fourpence.

VB: Whenabouts was that? I mean, did that go on quite long or was it?

PM: Just at Partick Cross, I don't know if you know Partick at all?

VB: Vaguely, yeah.

PM: Aye.

VB: I'm not that familiar.

PM: The Standard was at the righthand side of Partick Cross and the Western, the 00:26:00Western, and they called that 'the Ranch', 'cause it was always showing cowboys, you know?

VB: Right.

PM: And then up the road was the Grosvenor and the Hillhead.

VB: Right.

PM: Further down was the Rosevale, and then the Savoy.

NK: [coughs]

PM: And another wee one in [White?] Street, the Partick cinema they called it.

VB: Right.

PM: So that was the seven of them.

VB: 'Cause was there any, 'cause you're saying that the one at Hillhead was the sort of, the, a bit upmarket? [laughs]

PM: Oh aye! Upmarket right enough!

VB: Were there any, 'cause I mean I've heard of some that were known as, sort of, fleapits, I mean were there any like that?

[general consensus]

PM: Oh aye, the Standard was a fleapit.

VB: The Standard?

PM: It only had the one seat!

VB: Right.

PM: The fleas didn't have a chance, they'd get crushed at it!

VB: [laughs] I like that!

PM: [laughs]

VB: I mean, what about yourself, Tommy? I mean were, where you were where the main cinemas that you went to, when you were growing up? Were there?

TD: Were what?

VB: [speaking louder] What were the main cinemas round about where you were?

TD: Aw, there was as many cinemas. The La Scala, the Picture House, the ABC, 00:27:00there was, eh, what do you call, [inaudible].

VB: Did you live quite near the centre of town then?

TD: Ah, I stayed, eh, you'll no know, Possil Road, going from the University--

VB: Right. At Glasgow?

TD: Mhm?

VB: I know Possil Road.

TD: Mhm:

VB: I know Possil Road, did you say?

TD: Aye.

VB: Aye.

TD: They had the Astoria out there.

VB: Right.

TD: Do you know the Astoria?

VB: Aye.

TD: Aye, well that, I just stayed [lived] facing it.

VB: I see.

TD: Quite civilised otherwise. [pause 1 second]

VB: That's, actually I talked to someone who used to work in the Astoria a while back, that was a projectionist there, but I mean, ah, he was saying it was quite a small cinema. Is that right? Is it, was it quite a wee one, or?

TD: A wee what?

VB: [speaking up] Was it quite a small cinema, the Astoria?

TD: No, I wouldn't say so, I would say it was quite big.

VB: Right.

TD: [pause 1 second] It was built on the ground that where, that used to be a brewery there, years ago.

VB: Oh, I see.

TD: The Great Canal Brewery.

VB: Right.

TD: They built the Astoria on the grounds that. But it was a fair size. It's a bingo hall now.

VB: Right, right.

TD: [pause 1 second] Incidentally, going back to Chung Ling Soo, I forget to tell you-- [tape cuts out]

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

VB: Aye, you were saying there.

TD: Oh, his favourite thing was catching a bullet in his teeth! And, eh, the attendant, eh, fired a gun, made a mistake and killed him!

[general sharp intake of breath]

TD: There was one time he didn't catch it!

PM: Take that and you've had it!

VB: Yeah.

TD: But he'd always to prove that he had the bullet in his mouth, so he spat it out! [pause 1 second] And there's that one time that killed him.

VB: That's, that's amazing, isn't it? I mean, a dangerous act, that.

PM: Just one of the times that the trick didn't go.

MW: That's right, the Chinaman's through.

[pause 2 seconds]

TD: I'm not sure if he had false teeth!

VB: [laughs] That's true! He probably did after doing that a few times!

TD: Oh aye.

VB: I mean, I was wanting to ask the same question of you, Sarah, I mean, about the cinemas. 'Cause you were talking a bit about the cinemas out Rutherglen way, and the Odeon and that. I mean, what, what were they like?

SG: Oh, lovely inside. I was, I was never away from the pictures, me and my pal. We sat, we sat and went to the balcony, she would come up, Nancy, and she'd say, "Will you come to the pictures", I would said, "Yes, [inaudible]". We sat on till we were chucked out!

VB: [laughs]

SG: Aye.

VB: How often did you go, then? Were you?

SG: Oh, a, often enough! Nancy, she died, she's died now, she'd dead now.

VB: It sounds like from what you were saying--

SG: Aye, there were one at Kings Park too. The State Picture House.

VB: Right. What was that like?

SG: Lovely inside. You know the one what's, where [Holly?] Drive is? Just round there. That's where my sister stayed [lived], not long ago, up there.

VB: Right.

SG: I'm [inaudible] from her.

VB: Did you go, did you go mainly in the evenings? Or did you ever go during the day? Or?

SG: Oh, I went every time.

VB: [laughing] Right.

SG: Can't stay in the house for long! [pause 1 second]

VB: I mean, was it, was it--?

SG: I remember we used to go to the Locarno ballroom at night when all the Yanks was there. I mean, man! [inaudible].

VB: I mean, I was going to ask you a bit more about, you know, other things that you did like, I mean you were talking about going to the dancing and, was that?

NK: Aye, over in the church, we had a wee dance hall over in the hall sometimes.

TA: Glasgow had quite a proud name at that time for dancers.

NK: Aye, they can't dance now anyway, they used to do.

TA: Oh well, that's true.

NK: Aw they can't.

TA: They had quite a good name at that time.

NK: Aw, they can't even sing now.

TA: [laughs] Aw well, that's a matter of opinion! [laughs]

NK: Well, I'll hear you singing after dinner!

VB: 'Cause, 'cause one of the places that we mentioned was the Green's Playhouse.

PM: Oh aye, the Playhouse.

NK: The Playhouse.

VB: 'Cause that was a dance hall as well, wasn't it?

TA: That was [inaudible].

[inaudible: overtalking]

NK: That was what they called that place, the fleahouse!

VB: The fleahouse! Really!

NK: [laughs] Aye! We'd a name for it. Aye [a wee one on your back?]

TA: [overtalking] [It was all right there?]

VB: Was that in the cinema bit, or?

NK: Aye!

VB: Really! I never knew that.

MW: Did you know that Tommy? [looking at book]

TD: What?

MW: Have you heard of the actor Robert Flaherty [said loudly].

NK: Robert Flaherty.

TD: Robert Flaherty? Naw, I don't think so.

MW: Well.

VB: Is that? Is that not the man that made, he made films, didn't he, he made that film about eh, men of Aran [referring to Man of Aran]

TD: Eh?

VB: [louder] 'Men of Aran'. I think he's a filmmaker, he wasn't an actor.

TA: Eh, maybe that, maybe he wouldn't be an actor, maybe he was a director.

VB: That, that's it, yeah.

TA: Well, I'm sure they'll say a wee bit here about Flaherty. [reading]

[pause 2 seconds]

VB: Aye, I think he was a director. [pause 3 seconds] I mean, did you think that the films were made, made well then? Did you--

PM: Oh aye.

VB: 'Cause the actors were obviously good, you know.

PM: Well, the modern films are, what de you call it, a lot better, there's no doubt about that but the films at that particular time were made very very well, quite realistic, you know?

VB: Aye.

PM: A lot of ways.

[inaudible; overtalking]

TA: In a sentence, [reading out] "We were very fortunate, in persuading H.G. Wells to write Things to Come for the screen, the world, a hundred years hence. [pause 1 second] We engaged great directors like, René Clair, Robert Flaherty" - he was a director.

MW: A director, aye.

TA: Oh, [inaudible] Robert Flaherty, but that was a [inaudible]. [reading out again] "H.G. Wells and Things to Come, he's almost, and the world a hundred years hence. We engaged we engaged great directors like, René Clair, Robert Flaherty."

MW: Mhm.

VB: I've just noticed that cup of tea there, actually. [laughs]

PM: Yeah!

VB: I don't know if anybody else is gasping! [laughs] But--.

[all would like tea; discussion about tea]

MW: We put on a film last week with John Wayne, you know the film, [pause 1 second]. O'Hara, Maureen O'Hara? [pause 1 second]

PM: You mean The Quiet Man?

MW: The Quiet Man. We were watching that last week. How it was made. It was John Wayne's children that was in the film.

PM: Aye, Patrick Wayne.

MW: Patrick Wayne.

TA: That's right.

MW: Uhuh. You know, all about the director as well.

[tea passed around]

VB: I mean he's, he's good, John Wayne, isn't he.

[general agreement]

PM: The Duke! That's what they call him.

VB: Aye, 'cause they were showing, eh, Stagecoach the other night as well as that.

PM: Aye, that's one--

VB: That was on.

PM: Of his first films, Stagecoach.

MW: Aye, actually was it Stagecoach, which one was it that funded The Quiet Man? One of his films that he made funded The Quiet Man.

PM: Aye.

VB: Was that right? Yeah.

PM: Victor McLaglen.

MW: Victor McLaglen, aye. Mhm.

SG: Was that not made in Ireland, that?

[inaudible; multiple voices at once]

MW: Aye, there was a lot of it made in Hollywood as well. [loudly] Sarah, are you sugar?

SG: Naw, just, just a bit.

PM: There was parts of it were made in Scotland as well, in the Highlands.

VB: Right.

SG: Oh aye. I love the Highlands.

PM: They took it all over the place, you know.

SG: I love the Highlands, so I do.

PM: Sort of backgrounds and scenery.

VB: Backgrounds.

[MW gives out sugar and milk]

TD: It was a funny name to christen him, Marion. Eh. [inaudible] more tea.

[multiple voices at once]

TD: John Wayne's real name was Marion.

MW: Uhuh.

TD: It was the queerest name [inaudible].

[pause 2 seconds]

NK: Oh, Marilyn Monroe.

PM: Marilyn Monroe.

NK: See, when Marion comes up, we'll say, "Here's Marion Monroe". Oh that was [overtalking; inaudible].

VB: 'Cause I was going to ask yourself, as well, about the, erm, [inaudible] what were the cinemas round where you were? I mean you mentioned that, erm, the Casino and--

SG: Oh aye, the Casino.

VB: Aye.

SG: That was at Townhead.

VB: Right. What was that like?

SG: The bughouse!

VB: The bughouse! [laughs]

[inaudible; overtalking]

PM: I think they were all bughouses in they days.

SG: You went in and come out alive.

NK: Aw dear!

SG: See you'd scratch.

NK: Aye!

VB: Is that right? [pause 3 seconds] I mean, were there other ones? Apart from that? Or was it..?

SG: Oh there were the Grafton on Parliamentary Road.

VB: Right.

SG: Do you mind of [remember] the Grafton?

PM: Aye, on the main road.

SG: Aye.

NK: And there was one at down Bridgeton Cross.

VB: Right.

NK: Called the--

PM: The Olympia.

NK: Aye, that's right.

VB: What was, what was the Olympia like? Was that?

SG: Lovely inside, yes.

MW: What, the Olympia?

SG: Yes.

TD: [inaudible].

VB: And, and the Grafton, what was that like? Was it--

NK: No bad.

[pause 2 seconds]

VB: I mean did, did you go, did you go mainly to the pictures with friends? Or did you ever go when you were a child, did you ever go with your parents? Or--

NK: Aw no, we used to go ourselves.

VB: Right.

PM: That's right.

VB: Was it--

PM: You used to take bottles to sell and get the deposit back for going to the pictures! [laughs] Right, that was six or seven to get in the door!

VB: I remember you said that. I mean you must've been a keen fan to do that!

PM: I was.

VB: I mean, you must've been keen on the pictures.

PM: Oh aye. Tuppence a basket doing logs.

[inaudible; overtalking]

NK: I mean one and six for a balcony was dearer.

VB: Yeah.

NK: And I mean me and my pal used to say there's the [indicates pointing] [inaudible], she's away up! [laughs heartily] In the balcony probably! [laughs]

VB: I mean I remember as well you were saying that your mother was very keen on the pictures.

SG: Aw aye.

TA: Tommy, Tommy, there's a photo in here, there's a young lad in it, George Raft.

PM: Oh aye.

SG: George Raft.

NK: George Raft? Oh aye, I mind of him.

PM: Another gangster who got into dancing.

TA: He came here, he got off a plane.

PM: Aye, in point of fact he made a film called the Bolero.

TA: He wasn't allowed in to land.

NK: Oh.

TD: That's going back.

SG: Why?

TA: Because he belonged to the Mafia.

TD: The Mafia?

TA: That was why.

VB: Yeah.

TA: He came to London, from Hollywood, he came to London, stepped off a plane, came walking out through the barrier, then they said "You! you're not wanted in this country! Get on that plane!" [pause 1 second] [inaudible] they [inaudible] and I mind of [remember] that. And that was the reason why, nobody in Britain knew about it. The reason why they wouldn't let him into the country had something about the Italian crowd, the Mafia.

MW: Mhm!

TA: George Raft. So they words were the words here. They heard something and if he came here there was going to be trouble here.

TD: He was always tossing a coin.

TA: Aye, he tossed a coin in the gangster pictures.

TD: In the pictures.

TA: Aye, he tossed a coin.

VB: I was just hearing just now he was a dancer as well, I never knew that-- that George Raft could dance.

TA: Aye, there was a number of people that went.PM: Aye, that were dancers.

TA: They could dance and they could sing and they could act.

PM: 'Cause he made a film called the Bolero.

TA: That's right.

PM: That's what he done that, that film, you know, the dance sequence.

TA: I shouldn't, I shouldn't have thought [inaudible] Tommy Dunn'll remember this guy, George Raft.

VB: Mhm.

TD: The one that used to always play was Wallace Beery.

NK: Oh I liked him.

SG: Who?

NK: Wallace Beery.

MW: He ended up penniless.

NK: Who did?

MW: George Raft.

NK: I didn't know that.

[pause 2 seconds]

VB: You were saying as well, Wallace Beery--

[bell rings]

VB: Was good. [pause 3 seconds] You mentioned as well, you were talking about 00:40:00some of the English ones, like Gracie Fields and Anna Neagle and--

SG: Aw my, Gracie!

NK: She came from Manchester.

PM: Sally, that's what they called her [inaudible; overtalking].

TA: There was an opinion that she was a man. She was a woman.

NK: Who, Gracie Fields?

TA: Frances Drake.

[bell rings]

PM: Aw, I never heard of her.

NK: She was the Forces darling.

TA: That was her proper name, Frances Drake.

VB: Were there any of the stars that you didn't--

TA: Frances Drake.

VB: You didn't like, I mean was there anyone that you didn't take to? Or.

TD: [coughing]

SG: Naw, I liked them all, dear.

TA: Another thing I'm saying that Tommy Dunn'll tell you and all. Is one of the greatest voices there were.

NK: Who?

TA: Richard Tauber. [with emphasis] Richard Tau-ber.

MW: Oh aye.

NK: Oh aye, I know where you are.

MW: Mhm.

TA: Operatic singer he was. Richard Tauber.

NK: Is that "You are My Heart's Delight"?

SG: Oh, what a lovely song that was.

TA: That's not the one.

SG: Nancy, I used to have a record of that.

MW: 'My Heart's Delight' [referring to the song 'You are my Heart's Delight'].

NK: Aye, I--

TA: It's no 'My Heart's Delight', it's 'My Heart's Desire'.

SG: 'My Heart's [flipping?]".

TA: [inaudible]

SG: [laughs]

TD: Richard Tauber.

SG: Aye.

TA: Aye, Richard Tauber. He was, he had a great voice, you know him?

PM: Operatic. And Mario Lanza.

SG: Oh he was a lovely singer.

TD: [coughs]

VB: [looking at book] There's your Jack Buchanan.

PM: Oh yes.

NK: Aye, he's good.

PM: He was a dancing man as well.

TD: Mhm.

VB: I've just come across Jack Buchanan that you were talking about.

NK: Jack Buchanan.

PM: Aye, is he was more a [inaudible], he always played the Alhambra I think.

NK: Aye that's right, Tommy. Aye, aye.

[pause 2 seconds]

TA: Ah but you couldn't beat Glasgow could you Tommy, eh?

TD: Aw naw.

TA: You were brought up in Glasgow, weren't you?

MW: Was it not Clydebank?

TD: Aw [inaudible].

MW: Did he not tell you?

[NK tells how TD used to make the crossing across the Clyde with river boats, NK 00:42:00and SLG sing 'Ferry Across the Mersey']

VB: I wonder if that was Jean Harlow. I can just see a bit of her. [looking over at book]

NK: She's good.

SG: Mhm.

VB: Aye, Jean Harlow as China Doll [referring to her role in China Seas]. With Wallace Beery.

TD: What was she--

NK: Oh Wallace Beery.

VB: Did you like Jean Harlow?

NK: Aw [inaudible] dear. Eh?

TA: I tell you who was the top of the names. Wallace Beery played the part of a man called James McCardle.

NK: James what?

TA: James McCardle.

NK: Naw.

TA: It was Wallace Beery that played the part of James McCardle.

NK: Oh aye.

TA: They want to know the story about the man, McCardle.

NK: Ye know there's someone in here called McCardle. Either down the stair or up 00:43:00the stair.

VB: You were saying, Nancy, that you didn't like Jean Harlow very much.

NK: Naw.

VB: Why was that?

NK: I don't know. Just didn't.

VB: Was it the sort of parts she did, or was it her?

NK: Well, I just really wasn't, I wasn't very keen on her.

VB: [pause 2 seconds] 'Cause I mean, I've heard some other folk saying that, that they didn't take to her or. [pause 1 second]

TA: There were a lot of people here [inaudible], they were great actresses and there were great actors and they're forgotten about. There one there, Merle Oberon.

NK: Oh aye, she was good.

TA: I, that's what I mean but you never hear of them at all.

[inaudible; overtalking]

TA: Merle Oberon. [pause 2 seconds] There's another one here, Julia Haydon [referring to Julie Haydon].

NK: Julie Haydon?

TA: Julie Haydon. She was a film actress.

SG: I mind of her.

[overtalking; inaudible]

TA: I'll tell you another one, Janet Gaynor.

NK: Oh aye. She was good.

[pause 2 seconds]

VB: I wish I had some more of these with me.

TA: Bing Crosby.

NK: Eh?

TA: The man [inaudible; overtalking].

NK: Aye Bing.

TA: Aye.

SG: Aw, Bing Crosby.

NK: Bing Crosby.

SG: Oh aye.

TA: He didn't finish up bankrupt.

[general laughter]

NK: Aye Bing Crosby had a band.

[laughter continues]

NK: Bing Crosby had a band with his brothers.

VB: Right.

NK: That's right.

PM: The singers [inaudible].

SG: Bing!

TA: Well who [inaudible; overtalking]--

TD: British Crosby!

VB: [laughs]

TA: No but I'm talking about--

[inaudible; overtalking]

TD: [inaudible]

VB: Aw! You're cheating!

[general laughter]

NK: You think you're awful funny!

TA: Naw, Bing Crosby's wife--

VB: Right.

MW: Dixie Lee.

TA: Real wife.

[overtalking; inaudible]

NK: Aye, Dixie Lee.

TA: Who?

NK: Dixie Lee!

TA: That's true, Bing Crosby's wife was Dixie Lee.

VB: She's lovely, isn't she?

TA: It says there, Dixie Lee, I didn't know about that, de you see the name. It says his wife was properly called Dixie Lee.

MW: His wife was on the television last year.

TD: Who is that, is it his wife there?

MW: Mrs Christmas!

NK: Mrs Christmas!

VB: [laughs]

TD: Merry Christmas!

MW: Merry Christmas, aye!

[all laugh]

[pause 2 seconds]

MW: Peter Lorre.

TD: Oh aye.

NK: Aye, he was good

[pause 2 seconds]

PM: Nancy, I knew his cousin. [pause 2 seconds] Peter Lorre, water lorry!

[all laugh]

VB: Too fast for me!

NK: Naw.

TD: The, the same pronunciation but a different spelling. [Walter Lorrie?] and Peter Lorre.

PM: One's got an I, E and the other's got a Y.

[pause 2 seconds while looking through books]

VB: There's one of Spencer Tracy here as well. [pause 1 second] We mentioned as well, we talked about some of the comedy folk, like the Marx brothers and--

NK: Aw I didn't like them.

SG: Oh, the Marx brothers?

NK: I thought they were stupid.

SG: I did.

NK: Did you like the Marx Brothers?

SG: I thought they were good.

NK: I thought they were awful stupid.

PM: Laurel and Hardy were the tops.

SG: Aww aye.

NK: Oh aye, Laurel and Hardy.

PM: They were the tops.

NK: [singing] "A dood day doo, a dood day doo! eh!"

[general laughter]

NK: Aye, with his kilt.

SG: Aye, that's right!

PM: Bonnie Scotland, that was the film he made.

MW: My son's collected every one of they Laurel and Hardy.

PM: Aye well.

TA: Coming back years ago, there was two on the stage. One was the comic and one was the feed man. The feed man's the guy that answers the questions. The two of them they're partners. The man gave the answer. They had to have a feed man. Or they couldn't have gone on the stage.

TD: I think Stan Laurel was born in Glasgow because his father owned the Metropole, it was on Wells Street.

TA: Aw, I didn't know that.

TA: Aye.

MW: Aye.

PM: Stan Laurel was born in London.

NK: Eh?

PM: He was born in London, Stan Laurel.

TD: Well, I'm only going by statistics, I don't know what your knowledge is.

VB: Mhm.

PM: Stan Laurel was born in London.

[inaudible; overtalking]

VB: I've heard that before though, that his father had that.

TD: [inaudible].

PM: Twenty-seven.

VB: We're turned up a scandal here, I think.

[pause 3 seconds]

VB: I mean you mentioned as well the erm news, the Pathe news.

PM: The Pathe Gazette.

VB: I mean was that something that you enjoyed or?

PM: Oh aye, I used to like the news, aye.

VB: Aye.

PM: The Pathe Gazette.

TA: Were we not talking about somebody there, the Ritz Brothers? Well I'll tell you the names of all the Marx Brothers. Groucho. There's only one of them. Groucho Marx.

[general agreement]

MW: What were the rest of them.PM: They were Italian [inaudible; overtalking].

TA: The Marx Brothers.

NK: Aye.

TD: Groucho had a moustache.

TA: Aye, Groucho.

TD: He was the--

TA: Groucho was the lead one.

[pause 1 second]

VB: Right, that's erm. I mean some of these ones I've never heard of, Gordon Harker and--

PM: Oh aye.

NK: Is that the [inaudible] star.

PM: Gordon Harker--

VB: Was he good?

PM: He was English, aye.

[pause 1 second]

NK: Eddie Cantor, he was good.

[pause 1 second]

VB: I think there's one of his films on today actually, when you say that.

NK: Mhm?

VB: Well, you know how they put them on about two in the morning or something!

NK: Mhm, mhm.

VB: I think there's an Eddie Cantor film on tonight.

NK: Mhm?

TA: Aye, there is.

VB: Yeah.

TA: Name me that film.

TD: What time is it?

TA: Want to name me the film?

TD: I can't mind of [remember] it.

VB: I can remember.

TA: Whoopee!

VB: That's it, yes.

MW: Do you remember it?

TA: Yes.

[inaudible; overtalking]

VB: Is it a good one? Is it worth watching?

TA: Well, I couldn't tell you, if you wait a minute.

MW: Eddie?

TD: Eddie'll not be in.

[pause 2 seconds]

VB: Does, does anybody know about that one, then.

TD: Who?

VB: We're saying it's called Whoopee!

TA: [with gusto] Whoopee!

VB: Was that a good film, or?

SG: I liked them all!

TA: [with enthusiasm] Whoopee!

[inaudible; overtalking]

NK: Patrick [Hagerman?]

SG: That's right.

NK: He was Irish.

SG: Yes.

TA: [inaudible; looking at newspaper].

NK: He's Irish.

TA: Ten past two, ten past two am, not pm.

MW: Tonight?

TA: In the morning.

MW: Tonight.

TA: [inaudible].

MW: Aye, tomorrow morning?

TA: That's the film there. [indicates paper]

MW: I'll tape it.

TA: It's called Whoopee!

VB: Yeah.

PM: I'll be away sleeping.

MW: I'll tape it the night. Right? And then you can watch it on Wednesday.

VB: Right.

MW: [inaudible; overtalking].

TA: [inaudible] Whoopee!

VB: It sounded like it was a good one from what you were saying, it was good. [pause 1 second] Actually that you reminded me though when you said that about Stan Laurel. I was meaning to ask you about the sort of, erm, you know the show people in Glasgow, 'cause you mentioned, eh, a guy called Codona. Codona.

PM: Aye.

TA: Codona travelled from one country to another--

TD: Aye, in the shows.

TA: Aye, Codona.

VB: The one that owned the Green's Playhouse, did he not, was he not in shows as well? Someone--

TA: No. He [inaudible; overtalking] a picture hall and a dance hall.

MW: [inaudible] owned Green's Playhouse.

NK: They were [Jewish?].

VB: There was a Green as well that had a--

TA: Uhuh.

VB: Originally, and I just wondered if you know about, anything about him?

TA: The Green's owned cinemas and dance halls in Glasgow. [inaudible] show people to them.

VB: Yeah.

TA: And they owned a lot of cinema, [inaudible] cinemas, they owned a lot of cinemas and big dance halls in the centre of Glasgow. And they owned a place called Green's Playhouse.

NK: Oh gaw, I went dancing in that.

TD: [Long before they had that?] they showed pictures in Gallowgate.

TA: Green's?

VB: Right.

TA: He had them all over Glasgow.

VB: That's what I've heard.

MW: Do you mind of the Barrowlands?

VB: That he'd had, so he did show films in the Gallowgate then?

TD: Eh?

VB: You're saying Green showed films in the Gallowgate?

TD: Aye, it was in the showgrounds.

VB: Aye, right.

TD: In the Gallowgate, in the left hand side, you went in to the showground, and Green was the first to show a picture there. Silent of course.

VB: Yeah.

TD: That was long before any of the picture houses.

VB: RIght, 'cause I--

NK: 'Sonny Boy' [referring to song from The Singing Fool] was the first picture talkie wasn't it?

TD: Pardon?

NK: 'Sonny Boy' was the first talkie picture.

TD: It's the silent pictures we're talking about.

SG: That's right.

TD: 'Sonny Boy' was.

NK: "Down upon my knees, Sonny Boy".

SG: 'Sonny Boy'. They used to have their own picture house up at [Langside?] See all the kids used to go in there. [inaudible; overtalking] seats [inaudible].

NK: [hums tune]

SG: We used to sit up on the balcony.

VB: Right.

NK: There wasn't a dry [pause 1 second] tear in that picture.

SG: 'Sonny Boy'.

NK: Eh?

SG: 'Sonny Boy', there wasn't a dry tear in that picture. We were all greeting [crying]! [laughs]

NK: [laughs] Do you remember?

[inaudible; overtalking]

TD: [looking at paper] I've noticed that.

VB: I'm glad you mentioned Eddie Cantor 'cause I kind of had that at the back of my mind.

SG: Oh I loved Eddie Cantor.

VB: That that would be a good one to tape the night [tonight].

TD: Ten past two in the morning!

VB: Aye. I don't know who sits and watches these.

PM: Saucer eyes they called him.

VB: Really?

PM: Aye, because he had big eyes.

SG: Aye, they used to go round and round his eyes, didn't they?

PM: Aye, saucer eyes that's what they called him.

TA: [I thought he was dead?].

[pause 3 seconds]

TA: 1930.

VB: 1930.

TA: Aye, that's what it says there.

PM: That was 'The Year of the Short Corn'.

VB: [laughs]

TA: He made a lot of films Eddie Cantor.

PM: Oh aye he did that.

VB: What other films did he make?

PM: Aw, it's hard to give you a title. He made stacks anyway, put it that way.

VB: Aye.

[pause 4 seconds]

VB: I know, I think I'd be hard pressed to think back titles of films.

PM: Aye, this is it.

VB: That length of time.

TD: I mean. The mind's working overtime here

NK: I liked that picture Tugboat Annie!

PM: Oh aye.

NK: It was rare, wasn't it?

SG: What?

NK: Tugboat Annie.

SG: [She's up there. Jessie [surname redacted]'s up the stair?].

NK: Wallace Beery and Marie Dressler.

SG: Aw, Tugboat Annie! [chuckles]

VB: What was that like?

SG: That was the name of it, an old song. Tugboat Annie.

NK: It was an old boat.

PM: He was a tugboat captain, you know?

NK: Wallace Beery.

PM: Towing ships up the river. That's where he came into play.

VB: Right.

NK: Now she was found too late in life. [pause 1 second] They found her too late, she was good.

VB: Mhm.

[pause 2 seconds]

PM: How about Noah Beery.

NK: Eh?

PM: How about Noah Beery.

NK: Ach. [pause 1 second] He was all right.

PM: [laughs]

NK: Aye, he was.

PM: Out the pub. Ginger beer, Marion, looking for bottles, it's not a beer in, it's a ginger bottle!

MW: [laughs at joke] Noah Beery! Aye! It's good that.

PM: Aye, you'd get a penny in they times for a bottle.

MW: Aye!

[pause 1 second]

VB: [looking at book] Oh, I just noticed someone we didn't mention, Greta Garbo, was she.

PM: Oh aye, Greta Garbo.

VB: Was she good?

PM: Greeting face!

NK: Oh, [imitating] "I wanna be aloeeeen! I wanna be alOEEEEEN!"

[general laughter]

NK: "I wanna be ALOEEEEEN!"

SG: [laughs] Maybe, she's being a [inaudible] night time.

NK: She wants to be alOEEEEEN!

MW: Did you like Katharine Hepburn, Pat?

NK: Oh aye.

PM: She was good.

SG: She was good.

PM: She was great, aye.

MW: Aye.

NK: She's still on films, she's in the film now.

PM: She made a great film along with Spencer Tracy. [pause 1 second]

NK: Aye.

PM: I'm trying to remember that film and aye. It was great. [pause 1 second] She always gave you the impression that she was going to burst into tears.

MW: Didn't she?

PM: Aye.

MW: Aye. Mhm.

TD: Did you ever hear about Sonja Henie?

[general assent]

NK: The ice skater.

PM: Aye, the ice skater she was.

NK: Aw, she was good as well, ice-skating.

TD: She just disappeared. She must've left with plenty of money.

MW: I don't blame her.

TA: Sonja Henie, she was only young then.

NK: She was only a young girl.

TD: I saw her in a skating rink, she was doing a show. She was just a girl. Show, in the skating, in the television, with Sonja Henie.

NK: There was another one. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: She was lovely, wasn't she? She was a wee--

[bell rings]

PM: [inaudible under bell] Shirley Temple. How about her?

NK: Oh I suppose so, her.

VB: Yep.

PM: She's not wee [young] now of course. [laughs]

NK: Sonja Henie.

[pause 3 seconds]

SG: Shirley Temple, She was good.

NK: Aye, wee Shirley. She's Mrs Black now.

SG: Aye, she hasn't changed much in appearance.

MW: Is it Mrs Black?

SG: Aye, it's Mrs Black now, she married somebody called Black.

NK: Black?

SG: Aye, Black.

PM: Aye, Black.

NK: It's a funny name, Black.

[pause 1 second]

VB: I meant to ask you, actually. Sorry.

[NK re friend of mother with odd name, Mrs Lizzie, who lived at the bottom of the road there; laughter]

VB: Now I don't know why that reminded me actually, while you were talking about Shirley Temple, but I meant to ask you about, someone was telling me they used to wear these Deanna Durbin hats?

SG: Aye.

VB: That you copied. Did, I don't know if anyone. Do you remember these? Or.

SG: I used to wear Dee, Diana [sic] Durbin hats, they're nice.

VB: What are they like?

SG: Deanna Durbin?

VB: No, the hats?

SG: Aw, something like that [indicates shape], we used to, something like a soft hat. [pause 1 second] It slipped down.

PM: A wee round hat, it sort of crowns on their head.

SG: A wee round one.

PM: Quite nice.

VB: Right.

PM: I'm trying to mind what you called these hats and all.

VB: Right.

PM: There's a name for them.

NK: Mind Tommy Cooper.

SG: Oh aye, Tommy Cooper. [laughs]

MW: Was that hat not a pillbox hat.

PM: I think you're right. Aye, that'll be right.

SG: What, a pillbox hat?

MW: A pillbox hat.

PM: A pillbox hat.

MW: Was it kind of?

PM: It was like a pillbox the way it was, you know? It sat on the cone.

MW: It sat on the top.

VB: Right. Was it kind of flat on the top? Or was it a round one, or?

PM: Naw, it's a wee flat.

[End of Interview]