Eileen Scott (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: ES-95-213AT002

* CCINTB Transcript ID: 95-213-14a-ax

* Tapes: ES-95-213OT003

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-132

* Length: 0:59:34

* Ipswich, Suffolk, 9 November 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Eileen Scott

* Transcribed by Joan Simpson/Standardised by Annette Kuhn

* ES=Eileen Scott, VB=Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second interview of two with Eileen Scott; Sound Quality: Good

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[VB tape introduction]

VB: I was interested when you mentioned that, that you weren't erm, very keen on Westerns.

ES: But my neighbour next door. She's about eighty-three. Loves them.

VB: Ah!

ES: She says, "Oh, I love Westerns!"

VB: [Laughs]. What was it about erm, Westerns that eh--

ES: The killing and shooting.

VB: Right.

ES: I'm a peace lover. I'm a romantic. [laughs]

VB: It's interesting because someone else that I was talking to was saying that they weren't very keen on Westerns either--

ES: No.

VB: And it was something to do with they didn't think they were pretty enough. They liked watching films that had--

ES: Lovely dresses.

VB: Lovely dresses and--

ES: Yes.

VB: Was that the same for you?

ES: Yes. Erm, it was the eh, the caring romance. You know, not selfish people. Eh, you know, I'm talking about Smilin' Through.

VB: Yes.

ES: You see erm, how erm, she died on her wedding day, didn't she? And I mean, he just cared about her. I mean, right to the end of his life. Erm, I think it's the wildness of erm, of Westerns. There's no peace about them.

VB: Yes.

ES: And when I sit down I want to watch. I mean if they come on, you know, in the afternoons I turn them straight off. Because they disturb me. Where I find that a romantic film-- There was a lovely one on the other day. Erm, Trevor Howard, Ann Todd and Claude Rains in [Name of film?]--

VB: A-ah!

ES: And erm, you know, there's nice romance about it.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Nice to sit back and feel at peace. If I watch something like that. But anything that's. I don't like the old-fashioned erm, oh sword, you know sword fighting and all that.

VB: I see. Yeah.

ES: I don't erm, Errol Flynn used to be in these. What do I mean when I say? Fighting with swords.

VB: Yes, yes.

ES: Erm. [voice fades; rest inaudible]

VB: Oh yes, sort of. I know what you mean. It's not fencing but erm--

ES: Well it is kind of fencing.

VB: I suppose it is kind of fencing, yeah.

ES: Yes. Erm, it's danger and killing and all that erm, it goes against the grain with me.

VB: That is interesting. Erm, 'cause that was one of the things I was going to ask you. What--

ES: Yes.

VB: What made a good film. What qualities you enjoyed in a film. Erm, and I'm interested--

ES: Yes.

VB: When you say that it was the sort of peaceful, romantic.

ES: Yes. Especially now I'm getting older. I sit down in the afternoon, and I want to be at peace.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I don't want to be disturbed.

VB: Mhm.

ES: In fact, sometimes if I see somebody shot or stabbed, when I go to bed at night, I can't sleep. It just keeps coming back. You know flashes keep coming back. But even when I was young, when I was in my teens, it was romance. Lost Horizon. The Dark Angel was another one with Merle Oberon. I think I mentioned this before. Herbert Marshall and Fredric March. And erm, I wrote down a couple more.

VB: Ah!

ES: Erm, but I've forgotten. Oh Claude Rains! Anybody mention Claude Rains?

VB: Yes.

ES: He was a good actor. Conrad Veidt?

VB: A-ah.

ES: Erm, my mother always said Conrad Veidt was like my father. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: And George Arliss--

VB: Ah yes.

ES: Was another one of the old ones. And then the other film that I'd forgotten about was The Count of Monte Cristo.

VB: Oh-h!

ES: And that was the original one with Robert Donat and Elissa Landi.

VB: Right.

ES: Am I right. Yes! Elissa Landi. That's right. [voice gets louder] And erm, have you seen 'The--'--

VB: I haven't, no. I've heard of it.

ES: When he goes to prison--

VB: Mhm.

ES: How he's in prison for so many years and he manages to get out in the sack of a dead person. He leaves the dead person in those cells between each other--

VB: Mhm.

ES: And he leaves the dead one somewhere. And he gets into the sack. So when they throw the dead one, as they think, over. They throw him out. That's how escapes. you see. I liked that. But there was romance in it, you see.

VB: I was going to say because--

ES: But there was some erm, fencing and eh, [pause 2 seconds] in that. But erm, not to the degree. It was exciting. That was an exciting film so.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And I suppose I liked Robert Donat and I liked Elissa Landi. Eh, now another person. Nova Pilbeam. Have you come up against her at all?

VB: Again it's a name I've heard without knowing much about her.

ES: About my age. Because, you see, she was a girl film star in the days when I thought I'd like to be a film star! [laughs] Erm, and eh, I think one of her first films eh, was Little Friend. And then she was with Leslie Banks in The Man Who Knew Too Much.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And recently she's been in the film, The Yellow Canary with Anna Neagle.

VB: Ah!

ES: Now do you know that one?

VB: I don't. No.

ES: That's a war film where Anna Neagle is erm, she's working for the British Intelligence--

VB: Mhm.

ES: But they build her up to be a friend of the Nazis so that she could work her way in. And then everybody's looking down on her and thinking she's a dreadful person. Even her own family!

VB: Aye. I know the one you mean, now. When you describe it.

ES: Yes.

VB: And Nova Pilbeam was--

ES: She was her sister in it.

VB: She was her sister. A-ah!

ES: She was in the Navy.

VB: Yes.

ES: And of course they all think that she's eh, you know, she's enjoying herself. They don't know that she's an undercover agent.

VB: Mhm.

ES: So that was another one. I saw that fairly recently again. And of course, I always liked Anna Neagle. And I think one of my favourites was Paul, is it Henra? Henry? [referring to Paul Henreid] And Bette Davis in Now Voyager.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Has anyone mentioned that?

VB: No. No. Not that film.

ES: Haven't they?

VB: No.

ES: And there was a gorgeous song in that, 'Would It Be Wrong To Kiss?' Because 00:07:00they meet and he's unhappily married, you see. And they fall in love. But, of course, in those days, I mean, they don't just go away on. You know, they are loyal. She's loyal to her. His wife and he is, you know. And this is what makes it so good. Erm, but the song is so lovely. 'Would it be wrong to kiss, seeing we feel like this?'

VB: Mhm.

ES: And eh, I suppose I was about twenty-two at the time I saw that.

VB: Mhm.

ES: It was wonderful! [laughs]

VB: Oh! [laughs]

ES: It was so romantic and they end up, erm, "We have the moon but we can't ask for the stars as well."

VB: Oh lovely! Oh.

ES: [laughs] But, course, I mean, it's not. They're not like the films they make today.

VB: Mhm.

ES: People meet and that's it. Mhm. That's where, you know, having known a world. A caring world, I find it so hard to accept today that people just don't care.

VB: Mhm.

ES: It's everything for themselves. And they can't love someone for them. They only love them for themselves.

VB: It's a very interesting point. Because it sounds from what you're saying, as if the whole sort of moral code was quite different--

ES: Oh it was!

VB: In the films then--

ES: Oh yes!

VB: To now.

ES: Oh! Anybody near a bed would be banned!

VB: Yeah.

ES: I mean, in my young days. But eh, there were some beautiful films.

VB: Mhm.

ES: There really were. I mean, there are some good films today. But we have to, I suppose, move with the times. Things have changed, haven't they?

VB: Mhm, mhm.

ES: So. Well anything? Any other interesting points that you picked up from, or that you want to know?

VB: Well, just before I forget.

ES: Yes.

VB: When you were saying that just now, erm. And this is also related to 00:09:00something you were saying on the bus. Erm, it sounds like you quite enjoyed mysteries.

ES: Oh yes!

VB: If not the--

ES: Yes, I do like mysteries. Yes.

VB: Yes. Erm, cause I know we talked a bit about the sort of Basil Rathbone in Sherlock Holmes [films] when we met.

ES: That's right! Yes.

VB: Yeah.

ES: I do like mysteries. In fact, I went to 'The Mousetrap'--

VB: A-ah!

ES: And I guessed who did it!

VB: [laughs]

ES: And I was so [laughing] pleased! Because it was supposed to be very difficult to. Erm, I just like to see if I can pinpoint, you know--

VB: Mhm.

ES: Who was, who's the culprit.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I mean sometimes you can, sometimes you can't.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But erm. Yes, I do. I like the Ruth Rendells. P. D. James, Roy Marsden.

VB: Yes.

ES: Erm--

VB: So the ones that. Am I right in saying it's the ones that aren't really violent or gory?

ES: No, that right. Yes.

VB: It's the ones that are--

ES: Yes. It's more where you've got to think about it. Miss Marple.

VB: Yes.

ES: Erm, Agatha Christie's books, you see. And Poirot.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I like all those. I like the way they go about deciding who's the villain. [laughs] Yes, I do enjoy that.

VB: Yes.

ES: Erm, nothing too violent.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Is there anything else?

VB: Erm, well the other thing that I wanted to ask you more about was if there were any particular qualities that you think drew you to stars? Because you mentioned so many different stars--

ES: Yes.

VB: From, you know, Ginger Rogers and Charles Boyer and Bette Davis and people like that. Were there any, do think erm, types of people that you were drawn to or? I mean we talked a wee bit about the sort of naturalness and natural qualities.

ES: That's it. Like Ronald Colman.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Yes. Well, I s'pose, looks to a degree. Erm, it's funny, I always liked men 00:11:00in sports jackets smoking a pipe! [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: They seemed cosy! [laughs]

VB: Yes.

ES: But erm, I s'pose looks with Ronald Colman. Erm, Robert Donat. Leslie Howard. Course, now you come to Leslie Howard. Erm, Escape to Happiness with erm, oh sweet. Oh, she died, didn't she? Ooh. Oh, it'll come back in a minute.

VB: Yes.

ES: Yes. Erm, yes you see the more you talk--

VB: Mhm.

ES: The more all these different people come back to you. But I liked the quiet men. Erm, I don't like bumptious people. Erm, and the caring. People who seem to care. You know, they go out of their way if somebody was in trouble to help 00:12:00them. That was the kind. And oh, Kenneth More!

VB: Ah.

ES: He was the real eh, sports jacket and pipe type. [laughs] I've got his book. Erm, I liked him. What about yourself? I know you're a different generation.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But of the old films that you've seen.

VB: Erm. Well I have to say I like Ronald Colman a lot as well.

ES: Yes.

VB: And I like, I like the sort of adventure.

ES: You like adventures. Yes.

VB: Well things. Not the sort of eh, I'm not too keen on Westerns like yourself.

ES: No.

VB: But I, something like eh, The Prisoner of Zenda, where there's a bit of a, some twists in the story.

ES: Yes, I like that. Yes.

VB: Erm.

ES: That was Ronald Colman, was in that, wasn't he?

VB: Mhm.

ES: David Niven.

EB: That's right. Yes.

ES: I like David Niven.

VB: Yeah.

ES: I liked his sense of humour.

VB: Yes.

ES: I think that's very important.

VB: Mhm. But I don't think we talked very much about comedians, did we? We talked a bit about,

ES: No we didn't. No.

VB: Erm. I think Laurel and Hardy came up.

ES: Aw yes. Eh, Harold Lloyd.

VB: Harold Lloyd.

ES: Charlie Chaplin.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Charlie Chaplin in Limelight with Claire Bloom.

VB: Ah! Yes, that's right.

ES: Yes.

VB: Yeah.

ES: [mumbles something; inaudible]

VB: [laughs] I know. I was thinking that as well.

ES: Ye-es.

VB: The other thing I meant to ask you about was if you enjoyed seeing the news. The sort of Pathe Gazette. That sort of thing.

ES: Oh yes! Definitely.

VB: What that part of the--?

ES: Yes. Yes, I liked that very much.

VB: Mhm. [pause 4 seconds] And the other thing I wanted to ask you about was, erm. Again you mentioned a lot of different British and American films and--

ES: Yes.

VB: I wondered if you saw any differences between the films that were produced in England and the ones that came from America?

ES: There was a difference. But I don't know that I could pinpoint it really.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Erm. [pause 5 seconds] P'raps a little quieter. P'raps a bit more live, the American ones were a bit more lively.

VB: Ah! Yes.

ES: Erm, wait a minute. Alec Guinness. These people keep coming back to me.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Dennis Price.

VB: [laughs]

ES: Did you see the film where he killed off about twelve people?

VB: Oh yes! Yes! [laughs]

ES: [laughs] That was good. Now that was more. You see, there's humour with that.

VB: Yes.

ES: Of course Alec Guinness is very clever.

VB: Oh! Wonderful! That's eh, not 'Kind Hearts and'--

ES: That's right! 'Kind Hearts'!

VB: 'Coronets'. Yes.

ES: Yes. 'And Coronets' [Kind Hearts and Coronets]. Yes.

VB: Yes.

ES: Erm. Oh, I must find the name of that person in Escape to Happiness. I've got the music so. Erm, oh, I don't know whether I can find this or not. You go on talking to me.

VB: Right. [laughs]

ES: I get so cross when I can't remember somebody's name.

VB: Muhmm.

[pause 6 seconds]

VB: I know it's very irritating. [laughs]

ES: Well I get so I can't erm. She married Ralph... She's a Swede.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Eh, and she married, and she had twins. Or she had twins before she married or something. Erm, oh! James Mason is another one. Margaret Lockwood!

VB: Ah!

ES: Only she, she was a lovely person, but she always played such horrible people, didn't she?

VB: [laughs]

ES: Patricia Roc. Erm, Intermezzo, that's it.

VB: Ah! Ingrid, Ingrid--

ES: Ingrid Bergman! Yay! Oh, bless you! [laughs heartily]

VB: [laughs]

ES: I'll leave those there.

VB: Ah.

ES: Yes. That's right. Ingrid Bergman. Now I liked her very much.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I mean I wasn't a person who just liked the men.

VB: Mhm.

ES: There were women that I, I thought were very beautiful.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And eh, you know, I'm not [laughing] in love with women!

VB: No! No, of course.

ES: I don't mean that.

VB: Yes.

ES: But I could, you know, erm. I could take an interest in both sides. If a person, I mean like Ingrid Bergman was a lovely actress--

VB: Mhm.

ES: So I could admire that.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But eh, oh [rest inaudible; laughs]

VB: [laughs] Ah.

ES: Well, tell me something about, you know, the Norwich. A bit more about it.

VB: A-ah!

ES: I'm so interested about all this. I think it's fascinating. My son is very. Yes, I think I told you. That's everything I've written down there. [laughs]

VB: Yes. Yeah. [laughs] Erm, well as I say erm, certainly people were telling me a lot about musicals as well.

ES: They were.

VB: But, maybe a bit more of the sort of eh, more violent erm, exciting films, I suppose. Yes.

ES: Ah.

VB: But I don't know. It's maybe just eh, the people that I met there eh, had different tastes.

ES: Yes.

VB: Who knows.

ES: Well, you get a mixture of people, don't you?

VB: That's right. Yes.

ES: Erm. I s'pose, my friends, we all sort of like the same kind of. If, you 00:18:00know, you're similar.

VB: Yes.

ES: But eh--

VB: Did your friends like the same stars as you or?

ES: Yes. Oh my close friends.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Trouble is, I've lost so many of them now.

VB: Mhm.

ES: You know, when you get over seventy, people. I mean I'll be seventy-five next birthday, you see, so. I mean, a lot of my friends have just died.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And erm. I told the doctor once. I said, "All my friends are dying." And he said, "Oh. Don't be too unhappy." He said, "Look! You're still here!" [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: But that didn't help very much. [laughs]

VB: Yeah.

ES: Because I have lost a lot of friends, but I mean it's just bound to happen. I mean my father ended up. He lived to be eighty-seven.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And when he died, he hadn't got any friends left.

VB: Mhm.

ES: He'd lost the lot.

VB: Mhm.

ES: So, I mean, it just has to happen. You've got to accept it. Friends that I had then, you know. I mean we did all like the same type of films.

VB: Did you talk about films much before, after going?

ES: Oh, yes, yes! Yes. We liked this bit or that bit or-- [laughs] One of my friends particularly liked 'The Piccolino' that was in Top Hat.

VB: Aw.

ES: Erm, she thought that was a lovely tune.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And to this day she still raves about that. Not the other tunes like I did. But she liked 'The Piccolino'.

VB: Ah. I mean, the thing that crossed my mind as well was eh, how did you feel when you came out of a film? Did it? A mean, a film like say Top Hat or?

ES: Oh! Funny you should say that. I can remember. I'd been very, very down. My marriage had broken up, you see. And I was on my own and I was feeling a bit down and I went to see The Sound of Music. And I can remember coming home 00:20:00through the town almost dancing and singing! It was really uplifting. You know, erm, what was the song she was singing when she was going along to take the position as the governess? Erm, aw dear. Aw well, it doesn't really matter. But anyhow, I do remember coming out. So, I think I used to come out of Fred [Astaire] and Ginger Rogers] films and almost be dancing [laughing] through--

VB: Ah.

ES: The streets, you know. Very uplifting because I'd enjoyed them so much.

VB: Even if you were a bit down. Or not so happy when you went in.

ES: Yes, and I came out and I thought, "Why have you been feeling so down?" You know, you've got to cheer yourself up. Erm.

VB: It's a wonderful quality when you say that, that you can get from a film like that.

ES: Yes. And did I tell you about The Barretts of Wimpole Street?

VB: Erm,

ES: I think I told you when I was here before.

VB: I think. Yes, you did mention it. Erm--

ES: I mean, erm, I'd lost my brother, you see. And two or three years after, I had this nervous breakdown--

VB: Uhuh.

ES: And, I virtually had another breakdown when my marriage was all going to pieces. But, at that time, I mean it was going to see The Barretts of Wimpole Street, and Norma Shearer as Elizabeth Barrett being ill. And how when she met someone, she recovered.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I mean, you know the story.

VB: Yeah.

ES: And I can remember coming out of there and thinking, "I haven't any nerves. They've all gone." And I was cured. And it was amazing. I mean, it took something like that. It seemed to have a sort of, great impression on me.

VB: Mhm. It's interesting that.

ES: I mean, I was ten when I lost my brother.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And I can remember my father distinctly saying, "I'd give up every penny I have to just have him back again. And start again from scratch."

VB: Mhm.

ES: And that had a terrific effect on me. You know of this feeling of however much money you have, if you lose someone you cannot buy them back again.

VB: Mhm.

ES: They've gone and that's, well! We hope that they haven't gone completely but erm. You know, they're out of sight, aren't they? Shall we say. To most people.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But it's gone through my whole life! The words that my father said at that time. And it's funny. And films, you see, would, erm. The different films like that would have a great impression on me.

VB: So they could really help change your state of mind.

ES: Yes! Absolutely.

VB: I mean it's a really fascinating point. I don't know. I wonder what it is about film that can make you. I mean, I've felt like that as well.

ES: You've felt like that. Yes.

VB: Yeah, I mean, you can go in feeling quite down--

ES: Yes.

VB: You've got problems. And then when you come out you feel so much as if a weight's off your shoulders.

ES: Exactly!

VB: I mean I don't know what it is about eh, erm--

ES: And I mean, going to see a very, very sad film, it can affect you the other way.

VB: Yes.

ES: There was another one that came across my mind for minute and, oh I know! Goodbye Mr Chips.

VB: Oh!

ES: With Greer Garson. But then on the other hand, Peter O'Toole and, [pause 3 seconds], oh, what was her name? Singer? [referring to Petula Clark] [pause 2 seconds] Erm, they made a second film of--

VB: Mhm!

ES: Goodbye Mr Chips, didn't they? D'you know erm--

VB: I don't know that one.

ES: You don't know Goodbye Mr Chips.

VB: I know the first one with Robert--

ES: With Greer Garson!

VB: Yeah.

ES: And Robert Donat.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Aw! Really lovely! When they went and they were in the eh, up in the mountain. And I take it, you've seen that, have you?

VB: Yes.

ES: Yes. And the fog comes down. And, you know, he comes to her rescue and, ah! I thought she, she was very beautiful.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And as I told you, Random Harvest. You must see Random Harvest if you ever get the chance.

VB: Definitely.

ES: Greer Garson, Ronald Colman. Lovely.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Yes. Erm, do you never see? It's a dreadful thing, you know. It's only just lately. I mean I have got a memory and I can remember most things. But every now and again, a name will go. You see, like, Liz-- [laughs] [pause 2 seconds]

VB: Not Ingrid--

ES: Ingrid Bergman! I was thinking of Elisabeth Bergner now!

VB: Yeah.

ES: No, Ingrid Bergman. I mean usually that'll come off pat.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But just sometimes. And then half an hour later I think, well why couldn't I? [laughs] So there's something comes as you get old. There's something that comes down. I mean all my friends, in fact, friends far younger than I am--

VB: Mhm.

ES: Are doing this. So eh, [laughs] I just hope my memory isn't going!

VB: Well, I mean, being able to remember plots of films you saw years ago. I mean that's--

ES: Oh yes!

VB: I think you've got a wonderful memory, really. It's eh--

ES: Erm. There was another one I. It was right on the tip of my tongue to tell you and then. It was just a matter of discussing them really.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Was there anything else?

VB: Well, I, I enjoyed looking through your music so much--

ES: Oh yes.

VB: Before. But eh, I brought along a couple of books I thought you might eh--

ES: Oh yes!

VB: Erm, enjoy. Eh. Film books from the thirties.

ES: Oh-hh!.

VB: So-- [laughs]

ES: Oh!

VB: I thought you might like to have a look at these.

ES: I say! Wasn't she beautiful?

VB: Aw.

ES: I think I'm a bore. Because I've always been a perfectionist. And I do love 00:26:00to see a face that's in proportion.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Your face is nicely in proportion.

VB: Oh. Thank you. [laughs]

ES: Yes. But some people are either all head, or they're all chin--

VB: Mhm.

ES: Or they're all somewhere. [laughs] But I mean you take. Look at that--

VB: Yes.

ES: Of the chin. And the distance between the nose and the mouth and the slightly turned up nose. And the eyes.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I mean, no wonder she was beautiful.

VB: It's true. I mean, the make-up helps of course.

ES: Yes!

VB: But aside from that she's, as you say, just perfect.

ES: Oh yes! Yes.

VB: Face really.

ES: Erm--

VB: Eh--

ES: You know, you just sometimes see someone like that. You know, I do on the television. I mean they may be youngsters or anything like that. But if the face is beautifully proportioned--

VB: Mhm.

ES: You think, ooh gosh! You know. [laughs] I mean, mine's all over the place!

VB: Aw.

ES: Erm. But I can appreciate beauty when I see it.

VB: Mhm.

ES: A-ah! Here's our Maurice Chevalier.

VB: Ah.

ES: And Jeanette MacDonald. Cause we were saying about her. That she wasn't erm, such a good actress as Ginger Rogers.

VB: Yes.

ES: I mean she's a singer. And she's got a beautiful voice. Ginger was a natural actress as well as a dancer.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I liked her. She was hard working, wasn't she?

VB: Yes.

ES: I admired her. Charlie Ruggles, yes. Never went a bundle on Claudette Colbert.

VB: A-ah!

ES: What about other people. Do they?

VB: I think mixed, actually. Some people--

ES: They're mixed. What about you?

VB: Sort of took to her. Erm, I quite like her in some roles. I wouldn't say I liked her in everything.

ES: No.

VB: Erm--

ES: Ah-h. Now, I liked Herbert Marshall. Now why would I like Herbert Marshall? The strong, silent type. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: Gary Cooper. There's my Ginger!

VB: Aw-w. [laughs]

ES: [laughs] My eh, ex-husband. He's died now but, erm, he adored Ginger Rogers. Erm, thought she was fabulous. And he used to draw pictures of her. Aw, I remember Anna Sten, [said quietly]. D'you know, if I start looking at this, it'll bring back no end of--

VB: [laughs]

ES: D'you want me to do that, to look?

VB: Yes. I mean, whatever you like, really. As I say, I bought it 'cause--

ES: Yeah.

VB: I thought you might enjoy it so--

ES: Yes. Yes, I like Jean Parker. [pause 4 seconds] Madeleine Carroll. There you are! There! From The 39 Steps.

VB: Oh. [laughs]

ES: Oh! That was super, wasn't it?

VB: Ah! Wonderful.

ES: Oh-h! The other [version of] 'Thirty-Nine Steps' were good, but never quite the same as that one.

VB: Yes.

ES: You agree?

VB: Absolutely. I think the two of them together are just wonderful.

ES: Yes.

VB: Erm., they really seem to spark each other off, I think.

ES: Oh, yes. Lilian Harvey. I've got one of her songs over there. 'In a year, in a day' [singing], 'When the shadows [swim?] away'. Leslie Howard.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Wonder what happened to him. He got crushed in the--

VB: That's right. Yes, erm.

ES: But I think that. Didn't they think that they shot his plane down in mistake for Churchill's or something?

VB: Quite early in the war, I think.

ES: Yes. Just like erm, [pause 2 seconds] oh! [whispers something inaudible] Band Leader. Band Leader.

VB: Oh yes, erm. Not Glenn--

ES: Yes, Glenn Miller!

VB: Yes. [laughs]

ES: Glenn Miller.

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

ES: No Myrna Loy and William Powell in The Thin Man.

VB: Mhm.

ES: That's another. That was another.

VB: With their little dog as well.

ES: [Yes?]. That's Claude Rains. Where did you, oh! Charles Chaplin. Where did 00:30:00you pick these up?

VB: Eh, just in a book--

ES: There's Elisabeth Bergner!

VB: Ah!

ES: Tell you, Escape to Happiness was Raymond Massey and Romney Brent.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Mhm. And I can remember hearing something about her once. She said she had to lose a baby in that film--

VB: A-ah.

ES: And she acted the loss of this baby. You know, remarkably well. And she said, well, she had to off the stage and really make believe that she had got a baby. That she was going to lose.

VB: Mhm.

ES: To really feel, you know. But 'sfunny. I haven't seen a picture of her for ages. And these are some of the directors.

VB: Were you interested in the technical side of things ever? Or was that?

ES: No, I don't think so.

VB: Mhm.

ES: No. [turns pages] Now, ah! The Ghost Goes West!

VB: Oh yes. [laughs]

ES: Oh-h! I loved that! And now, you see, that's reminded me of Peter Ibbetson. Do you know that one?

VB: I know the name but--

ES: Gary. Gary Cooper. I can't remember the person. But they used eh, he was in prison. And spiritually she used to come to him. In prison. And talk to him.

VB: Mhm.

ES: It was a most fascinating erm, film. It was another one my friend liked. And I can always remember that it came on eh, [next word?] the films. And The Ghost Goes West. And I had to choose between the two.

VB: Aw.

ES: And I went for The Ghost Goes West.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But it was years after I saw Peter Ibbetson on the television. So I did eventually see it.

VB: [laughs]

ES: But I loved--

VB: Aw, that's lovely.

ES: I thought that was super.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And the other day, Edwin was, that's my son--

VB: Mhm.

ES: Was asking me about Jack Buchanan.

VB: Ah!

ES: There's one of his members. There's eh, there's Tim's wife. Wait a minute. 00:32:00Her mother was a cousin--

VB: Oh really!

ES: To Jack Buchanan. Yes.

VB: Uhuh.

ES: So that was quite interesting.

VB: Ah.

ES: All these little bits. You see, she's another beautiful-- [pause 2 seconds] Lovely, beautiful. But even, yes, I mean. Now to me, there--

VB: Uhuh.

ES: Greta Garbo is even better proportioned than she is.

VB: Than Madeleine Carroll. Yes.

ES: Because she's a little bit. I'm awful, aren't I? I do pick them to pieces.

VB: Why not?

ES: The most beautiful eyes!

VB: Mhm.

ES: But she's a little bit squashed. Where Greta Garbo's face was absolutely in proportion.

VB: Yes. She's not got that, the bone structure either, has she? The--

ES: No.

VB: I mean, she is lovely, but--

ES: Yes, she's lovely. No, she hasn't got the high cheekbones.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Now who's the one who's got the really high cheekbones? Oh, course, Claudette, Claudette Colbert.

VB: Yes.

ES: I think she, I think she has. [turns pages] I mean, I don't do it unkindly--

VB: No.

ES: Picking, you know, when I pick people to pieces. It's just sheer interest.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Think, you see, [Lilian Harvey was lovely?]. But then, to me, her jaw's too big.

VB: Yes.

ES: You see, [laughs] I don't know whether other people look at things like this. Actually hers is fairly broad. 'Course I like the Joan Fontaine heart-shape.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Erm, you see she's quite. Erm, she's got the fairly high cheekbones, hasn't she?

VB: Yes.

ES: But even so, she doesn't. I would like to see that piece off there.

VB: Yes.

ES: And there.

VB: Yes.

ES: Do you agree? [laughs]

VB: When you put it like that. Yes, I can see that. Erm, it is quite--

ES: You've got a heart-shaped face.

VB: Sort of straight. Straight.

ES: You've come round nicely down here.

VB: [laughs]

ES: But you see, she doesn't. She comes down and then it's almost a square.

VB: Yes. When you say it. It's not something I've been aware of before, but now 00:34:00you've pointed it out eh. I think you're right.

ES: Well, I suppose it's sitting alone. Erm, you know, and you look at these things,

VB: Mhm.

ES: Don't you? Ah, John Mills. When he was young. [turns pages] Ah! Conrad. There's Conrad Veidt. Anna Lee. 'Cause I mean to pick this up erm, wait a minute. Rene Ray. That's right. [pause 3 seconds] Victoria [Hubb?]. I remember all these names. Dian, Dion, Dianne, yeah, Dee, not Deanna Durbin. Dee, Deanne, Diane, something.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Erm, she's got a baby face. And she was in a film with James Stewart. A war film.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Em, at the same time every day, they both used to stop whatever they were doing when he was at war. And they could sing to come in contact with each other. Eh, Deanne, Diane, Dianne, Deanne. It was a Dee Dee something.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Erm. [pause 3 seconds] Yes! Now look. You see, you look at Greta Garbo there.

VB: Yes.

ES: [beginning inaudible], isn't it, I think. You see, she has got a squarish face, hasn't she?

VB: Yes. It's quite heavy. In the lower part.

ES: It is heavy! Yes.

VB: Yeah.

ES: I mean, nobody's perfect, we know. [laughs]

VB: No. [laughs]

ES: But I think, I find it quite fun. Sometimes I see some young people on the television, and I think, "My goodness! You are beautiful." You know. It's amazing how some people are born, aren't they?

VB: Aw.

ES: With such beautiful features. [pause 2 seconds] Now Jessie Matthews has got the nice sort of--

VB: Yes, she has.

ES: Heart-shaped, hasn't she? She was a strange person, you know. Because erm, I 00:36:00mean, she was only, I think she, was she a Cockney?

VB: Erm.

ES: I know she came from a very poor quarter, didn't she?

VB: Yeah.

ES: And she was taught. She went to eh, elocution lessons.

VB: Yes.

ES: And that made her speak too far the other way. She was never quite natural, you know.

VB: Yes.

ES: I remember, one of her films she was, [sings song; something about romancing]. You know. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: But she was a beautiful dancer.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And I mean, she really is. She's a lovely looking person.

VB: Oh, she's lovely.

ES: Mhm. And dear old Jack Hulbert. And Claude [Hulbert]. I loved Claude. [pause 2 seconds] Ah, now! Oh, that's Luise Ryner, isn't it? This one. Yes. Luise Rayner.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Rayner. I don't know why I called her Ryner. Louise Rayner. She was very sweet. Erm, where's our Myrna Loy? Oh, Myrna Loy first had this part--

VB: Mhm.

ES: But later abandoned it because erm-- They were good in The Thin Man, weren't they?

VB: Mhm.

ES: Oh, Loretta Young was another person I thought was very sweet. [pause 3 seconds] She's another person, she's got a lovely--

VB: Oh yes.

ES: profile, hasn't she?

VB: Yes.

ES: Beautiful nose. Aren't I funny? [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: There's nobody else I've ever talked to like this, you know. It's just you're bringing out the erm-- [pause 2 seconds] Aw, Norma Shearer.

VB: A-ah.

ES: Yes. She's a bit plump round here.

VB: Mhm.

ES: That was eh, Miriam Hopkins.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And Grace Moore. Grace Moore died in a plane crash, didn't she?

VB: Mhm.

ES: [turns pages; 8 seconds] There's Madeleine Carroll again.

VB: Ah!

ES: And Lilian Harvey again.

VB: The gowns are just beautiful, aren't they?

ES: Oh yes. Here's Myrna. No, Myrna Loy's got an interesting face. She's got--

VB: Yes.

ES: Such a cute little nose, hasn't she. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: [turns pages] That looks like Valerie Hobson.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Norma Shearer. I found her a little bit affected.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Do you agree?

VB: I think so, yes. [laughs] Erm.

ES: Joan Crawford was hard.

VB: Yes.

ES: Very hard person. [turns pages; 4 seconds] A wonderful actress, mind you.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Gertrude Lawrence, yes. [pause 3 seconds].Oh, Robertson Hare.

VB: Aw.

ES: Laurel and Hardy.

VB: [laughs].

ES: Oh dear. Oh, it's a lovely book. There you are, there's [loads? rest inaudible]--

VB: Yes.

ES: As a child.

VB: A-ah.

ES: I'm sure it was called Little Friend. And eh, I had one particular friend. And eh, we were both crazy. Ooh, we loved the film stars. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: And, you know, we used to think Nova Pilbeam was wonderful.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [pause 4 seconds] [mumbles; beginning inaudible]. Shirley Temple. Mhm, I like her. Carole Lombard.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Yes, and of course, she was killed in a plane crash, wasn't she.

VB: Ah. Was she married--

ES: Clark Gable.

VB: Clark Gable. Yes.

ES: Yes.

VB: Yeah.

ES: He had, it was sad. And there's George Arliss, I was mentioning.

VB: Ah!

ES: And Conrad Veidt. Now it's funny they should both--

VB: Mhm.

ES: You see, they're both of the same era, aren't they?

VB: Mhm.

ES: Eh, Madeleine Ca, yes Carroll. I think I mentioned that and Conrad Veidt were in Cavalcade.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [laughs] [turns pages] [mumbles name; inaudible]. [pause 6 seconds] I'm the same, you know, on the television. People I like, people I don't like.

VB: Yeah.

ES: But I always try and say to myself. Erm, you know, 'cause I say, I say, "I can't stand you!"

VB: [laughs]

ES: And I say, Now you mustn't be like that with people. All you can do is to say, I can't stand what you stand for."

VB: Mhm.

ES: Not actually you--

VB: Mhm.

ES: You know, but [laughing] what you. I'm quite barmy really.

VB: [laughs]

ES: Oh, Mary Ellis. I saw her in 'The Dancing Years' with Richard [Surname?]. Yes, another beauty.

VB: Oh, Marlene Dietrich.

ES: Oh. Yes. And Katharine Hepburn. Myrna Loy!

VB: Mhm.

ES: She's got the strangest nose.

VB: She has. Really.

ES: Yes.

VB: Yeah.

ES: But that made, sort of made her. Not so much that she was beautiful like some of the others--

VB: Mhm.

ES: But it was something so cute about her.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [turns pages] Aw, dear old Fred.

VB: Aw.

ES: Anna Neagle. [turns pages] Oh I mentioned, didn't I? Wallace Beery--

VB: Wallace Beery, yes.

ES: And Marie Dressler. 1934, she died! Tugboat Annie! That's right. I said 'Steamboat'. No 'Steamboat Annie', I think I said. Tugboat Annie. Yes. Fancy starting so long ago. I was only thirteen when she died. And yet I remember seeing her in the films. I must have gone. [turns pages].George Arliss, Conrad Veidt. Must have gone, erm-- [pause 3 seconds] Yes, you see, now Anna Neagle is 00:42:00very beautiful. But again, she's got this squarish. Hasn't she?

VB: Yes.

ES: I'm not saying they're not beautiful. But look! See, how heavy chinned she is there.

VB: Yes.

ES: [pause 4 seconds] I remember when Jean Harlow died.

VB: She was very young, wasn't she? When she--

ES: Ye-es. They were in the middle of marry, erm, making Saratoga--

VB: Mhm.

ES: And they had to get some-- Do the distant parts with another blonde, I think, to finish the film.

VB: Mhm.

ES: She tried to slim. She was putting on weight, overdid it.

VB: Ah.

ES: Mhm. [looking at book; pause; 4 seconds] Yes, I liked, I quite liked 00:43:00Merle Oberon. There you are! The Dark Angel.

VB: Ah yes!

ES: [beginning inaudible], didn't he?

VB: Yes.

ES: Oh and of course, Wuthering Heights.

VB: Oh yes.

ES: Mhm.

VB: With Laurence Olivier.

ES: Yes. And Jane Eyre. Now Jane Eyre, wasn't it Joan Fontaine? Was it?

VB: I think it must've been. Yes.

ES: Yes. Now I preferred Joan, I think I told you before. To Olivier.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Maybe it was the part. Oh, here's our Janet Gaynor. Never really [taken?] to her.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Now she's oval, she's got an oval, hasn't she? Warner Baxter was quite nice looking. He's being with all his family.

VB: Mhm.

ES: A-ah! I remember most of these. [pause 6 seconds] There's Olivia de 00:44:00Havilland, yes.

VB: Oh, Olivia. Yes.

ES: Yes. Yes, she was very beautiful. [turns pages; 5 seconds] Leslie Banks. Yes, that's Leslie Banks.

VB: Ah.

ES: He's got a, what I called a one-sided face. It wasn't, you know, it was cock-eyed. [laughs]

VB: Mhm. [laughs]

ES: There's your, there's Elissa Landi!

VB: A-ah!

ES: And she's very sweet, isn't she?

VB: Mhm.

ES: Clive Brook. Carole Lombard's pal.

VB: [laughs]

ES: Silvia Sydney. Now she was the one I was telling you about that was in Madame Butterfly.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Mhm. Oh and, course, Charles Laughton. And then eh, Elsa Lanchester. It's 00:45:00most interesting. Ann Harding. Yes, I remember her. And of course, Clark Gable was stationed out this way, you know.

VB: Was he?

ES: Yes, during the war.

VB: A-ah.

ES: Do you know, it amazes me, you know, how people are made. And how different. Now, you look. She's got a double--

VB: [laughs]

ES: Sort of a little jut.

VB: Yeah.

ES: You know, how some people have in their chins.

VB: Yeah.

ES: I can't make out how some people seem to have such different faces. It's very interesting.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I think it's very interesting how different people can be. I liked Frances Drake. [pause 3 seconds] I don't remember her so much. A-ah! There you are. Dark Angel! 1926.

VB: Ah.

ES: Fredric March. Yeah, Merle Oberon, as Kitty.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [reading from book]. 'The original Dark Angel, 1926, had Ronald Colman'--

VB: O-hh!

ES: And Vilma Banky in the cast. Oh, the original!

VB: Right, I see.

ES: Ah no, no!

VB: Yeah.

ES: No, it was later. It was in the thirties. Or possibly the forties.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Because it was the war, wasn't it? Let's see if it says here. [looks at book] '1935'. There you are.

VB: Right.

ES: Supporting cast. 'One of the best pictures of 1935.' I really enjoyed that. Oh, the original was 1926.

VB: Mhm.

ES: With Ronald Colman.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Yes, that was erm--

VB: Oh, I think I'd like that. I like Fredric March.

ES: [reading from book] '[Someone?] disappears in the rain-- [rest inaudible]. 00:47:00'Disappears in the rain and imagines he's responsible.' Oh, yes.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Mhm. Oh, that's lovely. Oh I remember that film so well.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Oh, Alice Adams.

VB: Ah.

ES: Yes, I remember that.

VB: And Katharine Hepburn.

ES: Yes. Ah! And I did Margaret Sullavan. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: She's got amazing eyes, hasn't she?

ES: Hasn't she? Yes. Eh, and Fay Wray.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Erm, wait a minute. She's the one, she's been on recently. Erm, a war film. Where she's shot in the end. Now I wonder-- [pause 2 seconds] And the shop next 00:48:00door where erm. She works in a shop.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And James Stewart. D'you know that one? Erm, 'The Corner Shop', I think it was called. And erm, he starts writing letters erm, anonymous letters. And she starts writing anonymous letters back. And these two fall in love through their letters but they don't know it's each other, and they're both in the shop.

VB: Oh yes! Yes.

ES: Is it the eh, 'The Corner Shop', or something? [referring to The Shop Around the Corner]

VB: I know the one you mean.

ES: Yes.

VB: I think it's, yes.

ES: [looks at book] [Name?]. Yes. She was a wonderful pianist.

VB: Ah, [Yvonne Irwin?].

ES: Yes.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I liked Alice Faye. But she gave up very, she didn't carry on very long.

VB: Mhm.

ES: She was a nice singer. Oh Tom Walls and eh, Ralph Linn.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And Robertson Hare. They used to do the eh, Rookery Nook and things like that in the old days.

VB: Ah.

ES: Oh! Great! [turns pages] Oh, my goodness! Incredible! Isn't it? [pause 2 seconds]. Gordon Harker was very good. [turns pages] I must go and make us a cup of coffee. [pause 3 seconds] Do you ever watch 'The Munsters'?

VB: Sometimes. [laughs]

ES: [laughs]

VB: Ah.

ES: There you are! Escape Me Never. 'Sfunny, a lot of the films I've mentioned--

VB: That you've mentioned, yes.

ES: Come up. Here you are. Gemma Jones and Hugh Sinclair. [pause 3 seconds] Escape Me Never. Now wait a minute. It's got Hugh Sinclair here. Surely I haven't got the-- [pause 2 seconds] That was Raymond Massey. [inaudible]. Must 00:50:00have been a different one.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [pause 6 seconds] Now then. What was? It wasn't Escape Me Never. Whatever was it? [pause 2 seconds] When we eh, were having a sort of gang at home, we used to have fun and we used to erm, wear something. To erm, you know eh, describe a film that we'd seen.

VB: Ah, I see.

ES: For instance, one friend had got erm, a flower tucked in her watch which was Blossom Time.

VB: A-ah. [laughs]

ES: And it just reminded me because I put a photo of myself on and they had to 00:51:00guess it was Escape Me Never. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: Em, oh what was it? Mummy put the, the parent, was it? Of the Dionne quintuplets. Because they were born at that time.

VB: Mhm.

ES: And that was supposed to represent The Mummy. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

ES: And then another thing we used to do. We used to wear something that had only cost sixpence from Woolworths. You wouldn't remember the days when nothing was more than sixpence in Woolworths. And my aunt went to party. And she took her wedding ring, she took her wedding ring off and bought a sixpenny one from Woolworths. Nobody guessed it! [laughs] Oh!

VB: A-ah.

ES: One of my friends got us a, had a pair of sixpenny socks on. But we all used to do, you know, things like this to eh--

VB: Ah.

ES: And it's funny. When I see something like that, it comes back. That was where Escape Me Never.

VB: Mhm.

ES: What was the film? No! I've remembered it now! [Said excitedly]. It was 00:52:00called Dreaming Lips.

VB: Mhm.

ES: You ever heard of that one? [laughs]

VB: I haven't. No. But I'll definitely look out for it.

ES: Dreaming Lips. Now, that, I think that was an Elisabeth Bergner.

VB: Mhm.

ES: But it was definitely, it was Raymond Massey and Romney Brent. I know that--

VB: Ah.

ES: Because there were certain ones that really, [voice trails off; inaudible]. Helen [Benson?], oh I remember her, too.

VB: I like the idea, wearing something to represent a film. It's a--

ES: Oh yes!

VB: It sounds like a lot of fun that.

ES: Erm, I'm just trying to think what the others did. [pause 3 seconds] No, it's funny because I'd had a photo of myself taken in a top hat. And that was the one I'd got on this little, tiny photo--

VB: Ah.

ES: 'Cause everybody put Top Hat down. [laughs]

VB: Oh.

ES: Yes. Elizabeth Allan was another. Wendy Barrie. She's sometimes on with erm, George, oh dear. Reb, eh, who was in Rebecca? Eh, Laurence Olivier. Who was the 00:53:00nasty one in that? George-- [pause 2 seconds]. Somebody who committed suicide.

VB: Oh-h.

ES: Oh dear. And he does a thriller thing,

VB: Mhm.

ES: With Wendy Barrie. [pause 2 seconds]. Diana Napier. Surely. Wasn't she married, she was married once to Richard Tubb. Yes, she was married to Richard Tubb. Or wasn't she?

VB: Oh.

ES: Diana Napier. That's right. [pause 2 seconds] Now, you see, she's got a nice face.

VB: Mhm. She has.

ES: You see, high cheekbones and nice-shaped mouth. D'you think I'm barmy?

VB: Not at all. [laughs]

ES: [laughs] Miriam Hopkins. She used to take nasty parts. I think if they always take the parts of the, the unkind ones--

VB: Mhm.

ES: You don't like them so much, do you?

VB: Yes.

ES: You know, it's not fair on them really. Oh, Bette Davis. I don't know what she like as a person. Do you know anything about her? Did she ever marry?

VB: Mhm.

ES: Don't think she did, did she?

VB: I don't know really. I mean just that, I know she had the, a sort of feud, didn't she? With erm, Joan Crawford.

ES: No.

VB: They didn't get on at all well.

ES: Oh no, they didn't get on. No.

VB: Erm, but I don't.

ES: Oh! Now another one. Danny Kaye was one of my oh!

VB: Oh.

ES: Oh! I adored Danny Kaye.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I thought he was absolutely fabulous! And I should think a very nice person. I would think so.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Jean Arthur I liked. Oh and Maureen O'Sullivan. I think she's sweet. She was in Tarzan, wasn't she? [possibly referring to Tarzan the Ape Man]

VB: Mhm.

ES: Now Greer Garson and Maureen O'Sullivan were in Pride and Prejudice. In the films.

VB: Mhm!

ES: Did you ever--

VB: I haven't seen that. No.

ES: You've never seen that. With Laurence Olivier. And it spoilt the Pride and Prejudice. Although I thought it was very good. Did you watch it?

VB: I didn't, no.

ES: No. It's just been on as a serial.

VB: Yeah.

ES: But specially the part that Maureen O'Sullivan took.

VB: Uhuh.

ES: The girl on there. They kept saying how pretty she was but, I couldn't see it. And I keep seeing Maureen O'Sullivan in the part.

VB: Uhuh.

ES: Oh! Look at the young Charles Boyer! Gosh! I'd never know him there!

VB: [laughs]

ES: Nova Pilbeam.

VB: Ah.

ES: Yes, I don't know which. What was it? Wait a minute. The Man Who Knew Too Much.

VB: Mhm.

ES: At last I'm [laughing] getting some of them right.

VB: [laughs]

ES: I'm sorry about the Escape Me Never.

VB: Aw, not at all.

ES: It was Dreaming Lips.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Dreaming Lips. [pause 4 seconds] There's eh, Leslie Howard.

VB: Ah.

ES: Leslie Banks. Sorry, Leslie Banks.

VB: Mhm.

ES: [pause 8 seconds] Oh you've got them all in order here, haven't you? Mhm. I might find the one I was thinking of. John Bowles was another good looker, wasn't he?

VB: Mhm.

ES: Mhm. [pause 2 seconds] So, when you weigh it all up overall and taking your Norfolk and,

VB: Yeah--

ES: All the different places you've been to. Do you still come down to Ronald Colman as the favourite?

VB: I think he must be one of the top. Definitely.

ES: You do. Yes.

VB: Yeah. He definitely had something special, I think.

ES: Joan Crawford. Oh-h! Crawford, Crawford. I wonder if Greer Garson is in here. I bet she isn't.

VB: Mhm.

ES: She was a bit later, maybe. Clark Gable. Greta Garbo. Gardiner, Gaynor. [inaudible] No.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I want to find out. I don't know whether you know. When did Greer Garson die? I can't find that out.

VB: I don't--

ES: I keep thinking I'll write to erm, the chap who does the film on eh, television. Nor, Norman, is it?

VB: Eh--

ES: No, it's not Norman.

VB: Barry Norman!

ES: Barry Norman!

VB: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure.

ES: I thought there was a Norman. Barry Norman.

VB: Yeah.

ES: Erm because she was only young. I know she was only young when she died. And 00:58:00I've alw--, I liked her so much.

VB: Mhm.

ES: I've always wanted to-- [pause 3 seconds] Gosh, you know, when you look at these now and you think nearly all these people have gone, haven't they?

VB: Mhm.

ES: So many of them.

VB: It's amazing for me 'cause I don't think there was anyone in there that wasn't a, you know, wonderful film star.

ES: No.

VB: There are just so many of them. It's, it's amazing, really.

ES: There's Raymond Massey.

VB: Ah.

ES: [pause 4 seconds] And of course, you see, erm, Anna Massey. And Daniel, isn't it? Daniel Massey.

VB: Yeah.

ES: They're his children, aren't they?

VB: Ah! I didn't realise that. They were related.

ES: Oh yes! Yes.

VB: Of course, it makes sense. [laughs]

ES: And Sarah Badel.

VB: Mhm.

ES: Alan Badel was another one I liked. And he was only in his fifties when he died.

VB: Mhm.

ES: So many of them seem to go off-- [turns pages] Oh, it's a lovely book.

VB: Ah.

ES: It's ever so kind of you to bring it.

VB: Oh, I thought you might enjoy it, so I--

ES: Oh yes! Ah! Here you are. [reads from book; beginning inaudible]. 'Daughter of Arnold Pilbeam.' [next few words inaudible].

[End of Side B]

[End of interview]