Beatrice Cooper (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: BC-95-208AT002

* CCINTB Transcript IDs: 95-208-11a-aj, 95-208-12a-s

* Tapes: BC-95-208OT002, BC-95-208OT003

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-153, T95-154

* Length: 01:33:35

* Harrow, Middlesex, 27 November 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Beatrice Cooper

* Transcribed by Joan Simpson/ Standardised by Annette Kuhn

* BC = Beatrice Cooper/ VB = Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second of two interviews with Beatrice Cooper; Sound Quality: Fair.

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[tape introduction by Valentina Bold; noise of traffic]

BC: I found it in the meantime. [referring to autograph book]

VB: Oh! Wonderful!

BC: And that was when I was, oh, I think I've put the date on it somewhere. Yes. 1935. Erm, I won a competition in the 'Picturegoer' where they had erm the bodies of the stars, and no heads, and you had to guess who they were.

VB: Mm.

BC: And erm, so these were the people. And the prizes were things, objects belonging to the stars. And I won, what did I win? Evelyn Laye's evening handkerchief with her initials on it. And uh! Thrilled to bits. And she presented, Madeleine Carroll presented, the prizes. And that's me, there. [laughs]

VB: Aw, it must've been so exciting.

BC: Oh ye-es!

VB: Oh!

BC: Oh yes!

VB: So whereabouts did, oh, I see. The Gaumont Palace at Hammersmith.

BC: Yes. You can have either the original or the copy. Whatever you want.

VB: I'll take the copy.

BC: Okay. Okay.

VB: That would be wonderful. Thanks very much.

BC: [laughs]

VB: These are just fantastic. I mean you're saying there, sneaking into the film studios as well.

BC: Oh yes. Well now, eh, this is my autograph book, which was given to me in 1934.

VB: Mhm!

BC: And eh, so this is the one I use. I used to hang around outside erm the Golders Green Hippodrome which was a theatre in those days.

VB: Mhm.

BC: It's now the BBC erm, thing. Erm, so Flora Robson. Erm, shall I make the tea and then I'll go through it?

VB: Okay.

[BC leaves room to make tea; pause until 0:02:53]

VB: Oh, that's just wonderful.

BC: I'd be awfully grateful if you could just erm ... Do you think you could move from there?

VB: Yes. Sure. Of course.

BC: Thank you. You don't mind if I pour it.

VB: Not at all.

BC: --put it on here.

[sound of cups and sauces]

VB: What did you think of Madeleine Carroll? In the flesh. Was she--

BC: [gasps]. Uh! I thought she was absolutely fabulous! Well she was, she was a beautiful woman.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And she was very very blonde. And I remember that dress. It was, 'cause I was standing there quite a while waiting for my autograph and erm, it was erm, it was [Garbo's reveres?] with sort of gold--

VB: Oh.

BC: And eh, the dress was black and I remember her white, white skin, here. And that diamond necklace and, uh! She looked just heavenly, you see that's how film stars used to dress! And you see erm, in, where is it? Eh, which is the picture where, I can tell better from this one. She erm [pause 2 seconds] here! Eh, 00:04:00here! Yes! She's wearing a.. a mink stole!

VB: Mhm.

BC: A mink cape! You see, I mean, they dressed like film stars in those days.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Ah. Right.

VB: Yes, thanks.

BC: Now, I'm not sure if the apple pie's hot enough [pause 3 seconds]. Well I should stop that, there's nothing-- [referring to tape]

VB: Aye.

BC: I can't tell you how thrilled I was... [inaudible]

VB: Oh.

BC: I mean, I was pretty good because I, you know, I was a very keen fan. [voice recedes; coming from other room] Eh, where do you have to be when?

VB: Erm, I'm all right for the next hour or so. And then I'll have to--

BC: For the next hour.

VB: Yeah.

[pause 9 seconds]

BC: How long's the journey? How long does it take?

VB: Erm, it takes about five hours, something like that.

BC: [voice from distance] How many people have you seen here?

VB: Erm, let me think-- [pause 2 seconds] Probably about, maybe twelve, fifteen, something like that.

BC: Twelve or fifteen people.

VB: Yeah.

BC: That's a lot. And in what sort of areas?

VB: Erm-- mainly round about sort of Harrow and Wealdstone.

BC: Oh really!

VB: Yes.

BC: Ah! Are there many people my age?

VB: There are, yes. Yes.

BC: Oh! That's amazing!

VB: In South Harrow as well, I've been to.

BC: What's that?

VB: In South Harrow as well.

BC: South Harrow.

VB: Yeah.

[pause 5 seconds]

VB: I think actually Madeleine Carroll's someone that practically everyone's mentioned. Like I have the--

BC: Sorry. What did you say?

VB: I'm saying, I think Madeleine Carroll's someone that practically everyone's mentioned.

BC: Aw, she was good. I remember the first film I saw her in was I Was a Spy. Ah! That was such a good film. I know it's been on sort of, eh, on television, but I've never managed to see it again.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I Was a Spy. It was a war film and she was a nurse in that, I think. Yes. And I think Clive Brook was in it. But eh, her career never really took off after that.

VB: Mm.

BC: For some reason. Now, can I... [pause 2 seconds]

VB: That looks lovely.

BC: I've no idea what it's like. My sweet niece brought it for me and eh, we 00:07:00didn't eat it.

VB: Thanks.

BC: I think I'll join you. Would you help yourself to as much cream as you want?

VB: Thanks very much.

BC: It's only single cream. You're not on a diet, I assume, are you?

VB: Not at the moment. No. [laughs]

BC: No. [laughs] Good. Are you staying in a hotel in [inaudible]?

VB: Erm, yes I'm staying, it's the Central Hotel, it's called.

BC: Oh. Is it any good?

VB: It's all right. It's erm fairly basic really.

BC: Ah. Oh, I haven't poured your tea. How do you like it? Strong or weak?

VB: Erm, just about that looks fine.

BC: Yes. Good. 'Cause I like tea to taste like tea.

VB: That's lovely thanks.

BC: Do you take sugar?

VB: Eh, no. I just take it like this.

[pause 3 seconds]

BC: Well eh, where are we here? Flora, Flora Robson. That was outside the Golders Green Hippodrome. Erm, now, Victoria Hopper. Is that a name you've come across?

VB: I have heard the name I think, but I don't know much about her.

BC: Now she was the wife of Basil Dean.

VB: Mm.

BC: Eh, he was a director at that time. And erm, think it's his second wife. Not sure. And she was an attractive little thing. And she was in a film called The Constant Nymph. Which had been made earlier as a silent. Did you see that programme on film, just erm, not very long ago?

VB: No, I missed it, I'm afraid.

BC: Now [laughs] what a pity.

VB: Yes.

BC: Because the original girl, the original constant nymph was a little Cockney girl but very pretty. And I think she was with Ivor Novello. Ivor Novello was the um, the hero, the conductor. Eh, the orchestral conductor. And erm-- I remember my sister telling me how wonderful that film was and how she remembered 00:09:00at the end, she goes to a window and puts both arms up and then falls dead! [laughs] And then I saw it, eh, during the thirties made with Victoria Hopper and Brian Aherne. And I was so impressed with it. I mean I hadn't seen the silent one. The little girl that played the part in the silent one they couldn't use in the talkie because she was cockney. [laughs]

VB: I see.

BC: So eh, so Victoria Hopper was lovely. It was a lovely film. I'd rather be interested to see that again actually.

VB: And were these stars quite accessible about signing autographs? Were they quite friendly?

BC: Well I used to stand outside the stage door of the [Golders Green] Hippodrome and they'd do it. Yeah.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Yeah. This is in the film studio. Gordon Harker. He was in a film. Had you heard of him?

VB: Yes. I know the face.

BC: He was a sort of posh Cockney. You know what I mean?

VB: Yes.

BC: He had a special way of talking. That's not a film star, H.H. Whitlock - he 00:10:00was a runner. Erm, June Clyde. That was at the erm-- that was in the film studios. She was quite a well-known little erm English actress [Note: June Clyde was US-born]. She was very sweet. Can't remember the name of the film but we were standing there watching filming going on and so she put my name. Beatrice, my best wishes.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Eh June, that was June Clyde. Now, Robert Donat!

VB: Oh that was a, a coup! [laughs]

BC: Well, yes. You don't know what it cost me. I had to stand outside his house for hours!

VB: [gasps]

BC: And he came out! [laughs]

VB: Oh!

BC: But eh, it was worth it.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Yes I waited, because he lived in Golders Green.

VB: I see! I see.

BC: Mm. Which wasn't far from here. And erm, we knew where he was, we know where he lived.

VB: And was he as handsome in the flesh as--

BC: Oh yes. Oh yes he was.

VB: Ah.

BC: Well he died quite young actually. He had terrible asthma. Now! I think I mentioned before, Nova Pilbeam.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Has anybody else mentioned her?

VB: Erm, [pause 2 seconds] I think actually yes. Once or twice.

BC: Because I was a keen fan of hers.

VB: Yeah. Mhm.

BC: 'Cause we were more or less the same age. I think she was about a year older than me. [pause 2 seconds] And she made a film. Her first film was a film called Little Friend and it was directed by William Dieterle [Note: actually directed by Berthold Viertel, as mentioned in first interview] . Or-- I don't how you pronounce it. He was German. Director.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And it was a marvellous film, I think. With Matheson Lang. And erm that film seems to have got lost because I've never seen it since.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And she was excellent in that. She was about fourteen when she made that film. And then she did eh, she made a film about erm 'The Nine Days Queen' 00:12:00[referring to Nine Days a Queen]. Erm, what was her name?

VB: Oh yes, erm, Jane erm--

BC: Yes. [laughs]

VB: Lady Jane Grey.

BC: Lady Jane Grey. Right.

VB: Yes.

BC: And, she did a few other films, one with Hitchcock I think, or maybe a couple with Hitchcock. But she fizzled out. And it was a pity because she was a lovely, lovely girl.

VB: Mhm. What was it about her that appealed to you?

BC: Erm, she was such an English-- English actress. And she had a most eh appealing voice. It was slightly husky. Erm, probably a little affected, I mean when you hear it now it was probably a bit affected. But eh, she was a very sensitive little actress. Erm [pause 2 seconds] she appealed to me very, very much.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And that film, Little Friend. Good film. Here, mhm. Leslie Banks! [impressed voice]

VB: Oh!

BC: Heard of him?

VB: I have. Yes.

BC: Mhm. Sanders of the River.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhm.

VB: Was that one you got on the set?

BC: No, that was outside the erm, the [Golders Green] Hippodrome. [laughs] Ruth Draper. Well she was nothing to do with films. I don't know whether you've heard of her. She was on... [pause 3 seconds]. She was a diseuse. You know, she was alone.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And she, she was a kind of Joyce Grenfell. She was a precursor to Joyce Grenfell.

VB: Ah I see.

BC: That kind of thing.

VB: Yeah.

BC: She did sketches. She was a brilliant actress actually. That's not a real erm, autograph.

VB: Mhm.

BC: But do you remember, you know about Kay Francis?

VB: Kay Francis.

BC: Mm. She was a lovely, lovely actress and she was in a lot of films. And erm I've often wondered why we don't see more of her.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Hardly ever see a film with Kay Francis now.

VB: No.

BC: On TV.

VB: She'd a beautiful profile.

BC: Mhm. She was. She was absolutely beautiful. One film I remember she made 00:14:00with erm, 'Lady of the Lamp' [referring to The White Angel]. She was Florence Nightingale. Aw there's the Madeleine Carroll--

VB: Aw!

BC: That was given to me, on that occasion. 'Best wishes and congratulations, nineteen...' I'll get my glasses. [pause 5 seconds] Is it 1935?

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhm.

VB: Did you--

BC: I think she's still alive.

VB: Is she?

BC: I think so. Yeah. She married, she went to America, she married some American, and it wasn't a happy marriage.

VB: Mhm.

BC: The usual story. This was at the studio. 1936. Steven Geray who was a Hungarian that came over here in between the wars, to escape Hitler because he was a Jew. And Billy Milton. Beelee Milton. This is the autograph that I value-- 00:15:00most. Stephen Haggard. Now he was, I would say, going to be one of our, one of the greatest actors. I saw him in a play at Golders Green Hippodrome. It was a Shaw play and eh, he was absolutely brilliant. Did I tell you about it?

VB: You did. You mentioned him. Yes.

BC: Mm. That's right. That's right.

VB: Yeah.

BC: And eh, he was killed in the war. He was murdered actually. Erm, which is very tragic because I think he was just, well, he did make films actually. I erm, you know, I was in touch with his sister because his sister [pause 2 seconds] lived with Chagall for seven years. And erm-- she wrote a book. About those seven years.

VB: Mhm.

BC: About her life with Chagall. And reading it and looking in the book. It was 00:16:00a secondhand book. I saw a photograph of this Stephen Haggard who was her brother. And erm, I was so amazed by this, I wrote to her and I told her my memories of having met him, outside the Hippodrome. Erm, after the performance of erm, what was it? Erm, that was his one main Shaw play. My memory's getting so bad. Erm, met him outside the Hippodrome. This was just before the war. I was with my sister. And she had already seen eh, the play with Diana Wynyard and, the one that we saw at the Hippodrome was with him and Ann Harding. And she said that she'd seen the previous one with Diana Wynyard. And he said, "Well who did you prefer?" And she said, "I think I prefer Ann Harding." And he said, "Oh well, you obviously have a knowledge of the fundamentals."

VB: Aw!

BC: And she was very chuffed by that.

VB: [laughs]

BC: And off he went in his little car. And then I think, shortly after that, he joined the army. Well! He didn't actually. He worked in Bush House as erm, broadcaster to Germany.

VB: Mhm.

BC: It's a whole sad history actually. He was murdered eventually. During the war.

VB: It sounds like a terrible loss really.

BC: But I remember that play. He was so good in it, he was brilliant. Athene Seyler. Don't know where I got that. I think that was outside the [Golders Green] Hippodrome. Yes. Erm, Ivor Novello.

VB: Ah.

BC: Erm, eh Gerald du Maurier.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Now he goes back, a long way. Gerald du Maurier. He was not films. He was theatre. Robert Speaight. He adjudicated me once, at the Guildhall.

VB: Mhm.

BC: That's when I got that autograph. He was a theatrical-- Would you like some 00:18:00more apple cake?

VB: Erm--

BC: Please.

VB: Maybe a small bit. That would be nice.

BC: It's a little bit more pappy than it should be I think.

VB: Oh. I think it's delicious.

BC: Oh really. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: Oh well. Help yourself.

VB: Thanks very much.

BC: Would you like the crusty bit?

VB: That's great. Thanks.

BC: Yes. There's another bit.

VB: No, that's lovely. Thanks very much.

BC: Take some cream, okay. And erm, when do you have time to listen to all this back tape?

VB: Well--

BC: [laughs]

VB: Erm, [laughs] luckily we've just had a half-time secretary and she's going to be typing up tapes.

BC: Oh, I see.

VB: Which eh, but I'm doing some of them, she's doing some of them. So it's eh--

BC: What? Taking off the tapes all the relevant material?

VB: That's right yes.

BC: Mhm. I see. Derek Williams. I don't know who he is. Sorry about that [laughs]. Um, he was probably an actor but I can't remember. Now these are the 00:19:00Mills Brothers.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhm. Also at the Golders Green Hippodrome. Nothing to do with films. Oh, they may have been in a film. But erm they were musicians. Erm, then, Gene Gerrard. These were at the film studio. 1935.

VB: Ah!

BC: Gene Gerrard. He was in a few films. And eh, Renée Houston. Now she had, she was a Scottish girl.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And she was erm in vaudeville mostly with her sister. Renée and Billie Houston. They were a duo, you know. A team.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And eh, she was extremely beautiful. And then she went into film, I think on her own. Renée. And that was at the Elstree Studios. I don't know what films she made.

VB: Mhm.

BC: But she was a clever little soubrette. Erm you should have heard of her 00:20:00being Scottish. [laughs]

VB: [laughs] I'll try and find out more.

BC: Yeah. Renée Houston. Mhm. Richard Hearne. Who was Mr Pastry.

VB: Ah!

BC: Many years later. But in those days he was, he must've been in a film.

VB: Mhm.

BC: So that was that. There's Richard Hearne, again. Frank Cellier. Now he has a son who's in films, called Peter Cellier.

VB: Ah!

BC: That was an acting family. Then, I think we're coming to the end now. Yes, that's all. So!

VB: These are wonderful.

BC: So that's 1934, [laughs] 1934, 1935. Erm, mhm. Solomon and [Harrico?], they're pianists. Erm, yeah, Nova Pilbeam. I met her, well I saw her on the 00:21:00Underground, eh, during the war. She sat opposite me. [laughs]

VB: Ah!

BC: I kept staring at her. And I remembered that I'd made an album of cut-outs, you know. I used to do that. Of her. And erm, I thought, really and truly, you know, I don't need it any more. I ought to send it to her. So I did. I found out where she lived. She was in Hampstead High Street. And so that was the letter I got. "Thank you very much for sending me the book of press cuttings. I was most interested and would very much like to keep it if I may. And you're quite right in thinking that I've not got many of the pictures you've collected. I had this photo taken quite recently at home. I hope you will like it."

VB: Oh, it's lovely.

BC: Mhm. Well, I think you can tell from her photo. She was an attractive girl. I met her many years later, long after she'd retired from acting, at the erm, Aldwych Theatre. [pause 2 seconds] And I said, "Hallo." She said, "Do I know 00:22:00you?" I said, "No, but I know you." [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: And I said, "I'm sorry you've not continued your career." She said, "Oh-- that was a long ago." Aw. Pity really.

VB: Mhm.

BC: But anyway. That's that. And I think that's all I've got really.

VB: These are wonderful. They really are.

BC: [laughs]

VB: They're a great collection.

BC: Mhm. Well, there's not very much really. But I wondered if you'd be interested in that erm German...

VB: Mhm. I'd like to see that.

BC: But they're all, they're all eh Austrian and German actors during the time of UFA [Universum Film AG]. German. Where Garbo made her name.

VB: Oh-- that sounds very intriguing.

BC: Yeah, well she eh, have you heard of Mauritz Stiller? Mauritz Stiller was erm a Jewish-Russian emigré. And he ended up in Sweden.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And he became a very famous film director there. And he discovered Garbo. 00:23:00Erm, modelling hats or something. And he, eh, he took her to Germany. They were making a film by Selma Lagerlöf.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And he took her to Germany and she, she became famous there. She was very young. She was only about eighteen or nineteen. She had this wonderful face. [pause 2 seconds] And erm, and actually Hollywood wanted him because they thought he was an interesting director. And he said, "Well only if I can bring my discovery, Greta Garbo." And they said okay. But when they got there, he proved a difficult director so he was sort of, put on the sidelines and they had a great interest in her.

VB: That's amazing. The sort of connection.

BC: Mhm. The reversal of what was intended.

VB: Mhm.

BC: He went back to Sweden shortly after and died an unhappy man I think. He wasn't very old either. Erm [pause 2 seconds] so that was, you know, that was in the book. And there were people like Francis Lederer. Francis Lederer was an Austrian actor. [pause 2 seconds] And people like Anton Walbrook--

VB: Mhm.

BC: You know, that came from either Austria or Germany. So [pause 2 seconds] if you like I could ask my son to have a look and eh, I could send it to you. If you, you know, you're really interested.

VB: Well, it would be wonderful to have a chance to look at it--

BC: Mhm. Mhm.

VB: 'Cause it does sound very, really interesting.

BC: Well if you have time, I could go into that place and have a quick look. I might come across it. Shall I do that?

VB: If it's not too much trouble.

BC: No. Well, it'd be less trouble than sending it. And then you can see if it's 00:25:00any good to you.

VB: Mhm!

BC: Mhm. I don't know what else I can--

VB: Well--

BC: Interest you in. [laughs]

VB: One thing I was wondering was erm, we talked quite a bit about Garbo before.

BC: Mhm.

VB: And I wondered if there were particular qualities that drew you to stars. If there were certain ways of acting or ways of looking or something that perhaps appealed to you?

BC: Well I don't know whether you, well, you must've seen a lot of the films that were made in the thirties. I mean, it was terribly artificial. And, very affected speech. And rather silly sort of situations. ridiculous plots and things. Eh, well, Garbo. I was thirteen when I saw Queen Christina. I can't for the life of me tell you what it was, but, I lived, dreamt and ate Garbo. For 00:26:00years afterwards. And, even today, she still fascinates me. And I really, and I've read all the biographies that are written about her. And the last one, the last book that was written about her is, I think, the most erm honest and comprehensive. I mean the man has done some real research. And he says, you know, it was an unknown quality.

VB: Mhm.

BC: First of all, she moved very gracefully. Although she was very masculine. She had a masculine build. She had this beautiful classic face. That wasn't appealing in the way of Marilyn Monroe, you know. But eh, and her accent. With it. Erm, and her facial expressions. She could get eh, fascinating expressions 00:27:00in her face. I don't know! To this day I don't know what it was that was so appealing about her. But she seemed to have appealed mostly to women. I think she was too masculine to appeal to many men.

VB: Mhm.

BC: But, erm, she had something. [laughs]

VB: Yes.

BC: She definitely had something. And I think she's looked upon as the eh, star. You know, the star, of all time. Erm [pause 2 seconds] what else appealed? Elisabeth Bergner, I was very fond of. Now she was a German actress.

VB: Mhm.

BC: She may have come from Vienna. I'm not sure. Originally. Erm, she came to this country, between the wars. She was Jewish. And she was a brilliant actress. She made a film called Escape Me Never.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Which was absolutely, it was revolutionary. everybody queued up to see Elisabeth Bergner. Erm, what was her appeal? She had a very naturalistic way of 00:28:00acting. I mean she was not eh, beautiful in the, you know, way of most stars.

VB: Mhm.

BC: She was reasonable looking. She was tiny. She was very small. But she was very emotional. Very emotional actress. And then erm Joan Crawford I never really [laughs] went for very much. I don't know. Barbara Stanwyck either. Erm, too strident I think, for me.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Erm, who else? Eh Norma Shearer, I adored.

VB: Oh.

BC: Yeah. I really loved Norma Shearer. And I think they were, she was the favourite in my family. With the men too, you know. And my husband! Everybody seemed to love Norma Shearer! [laughs]

VB: You've reminded me actually. I brought along a couple of film books myself. One of them, I think Norma Shearer's on the cover. [laughs]

BC: Oh! Right.

VB: Eh, this one.

BC: Oh yes! Well, the first time I saw Norma Shearer, you see she's got a cast, 00:29:00a slight cast there.

VB: She has actually.

BC: And that's, I think, what appealed to the men, you know.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I know my husband even remarked on these. He said, "I love the cast in her eye!" [laughs] Isn't it strange? No, but she was very beautiful. Erm, but she was tiny and I only realised this later. She was about five foot two. But she never looked it.

VB: No.

BC: On film. She had this wonderful eh, photographic face. Photogenic face. And I saw her in Smilin' Through, and that was one of the first films I saw. My sister took me to see that in the Palace Cinema in Kentish Town Road. [laughs] Erm, and, aw dear! I thought it was a wonderful film! [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: Erm, Smilin' Through. And it was made later with Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. With a lot of singing in it.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And of course in this one, she was with Leslie Howard.

VB: Mm.

BC: It wasn't silent. It was a talkie. And of course, there was no singing in that. But eh, it made a good vehicle for Jeanette MacDonald later.

VB: Mm.

BC: So that was the first film I saw her in. And then I, then I saw, I think most of her films, you know. Erm, The Barretts of Wimpole Street. Eh, etcetera. Can't think of all the names of her films now. But she was lovely. Lovely actress. Erm, who else was I keen on at that time? It's funny that it was all women, it was no men. Erm, oh I did like men. I liked Fredric March. [laughs]

VB: Oh yes! [laughs]

BC: And Charles Boyer. And eh, Francis Lederer appealed to me very much. The Continentals somehow. And Anton Walbrook. Sss! Mhmm. They had a lot of appeal. And eh, who else in the early thirties appealed? Can't think at the moment. This is a, mhm, somebody give you this?

VB: Actually we got it in a secondhand shop in Glasgow.

BC: Oh how wonderful!

VB: I thought you might like to have a look at it after--

BC: Mhm!

VB: After our talk before. It's interesting what you say about her eyes. I suppose it gives her a certain... [recording ends]

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

VB: I'll have some more tea. That would be lovely.

BC: Yes. Sure.

VB: Can I?

BC: You want to pour it?

VB: Yes.

BC: Okay. It may be too strong, but I've got some hot water in the--

VB: Oh that looks fine.

BC: Oh no, no! Oh, it's terribly strong, oh no, that's [inaudible]!

VB: [laughs]

BC: That's too strong. You can't drink that. Shall I pour some of it away? And put some hot water in.

VB: Erm, maybe that would be nice, yes.

BC: [leaves room] I'll put a little drop of water in. [pause 7 seconds; comes back into room] I think that's better.

VB: Thanks very much.

BC: I think before it gets too dark, I'll go and see if I can find that book.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I won't be...

[BC leaves room; pause 8 seconds]

BC: [voice from distance] It's something my son, 'cause he's put stuff in there--

VB: Ah I see.

BC: [comes back into room] And it's all in boxes and piled up and up. I don't think I could do it. So, I'm afraid we'll have to leave it. Eh, Anna Neagle. Oh yes. Lovely. Beautiful. I did see her in quite a few films. Don't know her. Eh, what year is this book?

VB: I think it's 1938.

BC: Yes.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Oh Camille with Garbo.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mm. Robert Taylor. Oh Mar-lay-nah! [referring to Marlene Dietrich]. Oh right! Yes. Oh! Well The Blue Angel. Have you seen it?

VB: Oh, wonderful.

BC: I've seen it so many times. Eh, what a classic. Myrna Loy. Lubitsch.

VB: It's hard to say what the qualities are that someone like that brings to a film.

BC: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We-ell, you just don't know. They've either got it or they haven't. Bette Davis of course. She was nobody that, well, I mean, she was a brilliant actress.

VB: Mhm.

BC: At that time. But erm, I don't, you know, she had nothing to make me feel eh I wanted to collect her. I think that's Marlene, isn't it?

VB: Oh yes. Yes.

BC: I think. Yes. There's Judy Garland. 'Course Deanna Durbin was one that I was keen on.

VB: Mhmm.

BC: Because erm, because [laughs] funny! There she is. Because she was the same age as me and we both sang. And, of course I sang all the songs she sang. 00:34:00[laughs] As her films came out, I got the songs. And erm, sang them. Eh, and eh, you know, we were-- and I dressed like her. I think a lot of kids of that age--

VB: Mhm.

BC: You know, around fifteen, sixteen. Eh, because there were no fashions for children of that age. No teenagers. You either dressed as a very small child. Or you dressed as an adult. Sophisticated clothes. You know, there were no teenage clothes at that time. And she brought a new fashion.

VB: That's interesting.

BC: Mhmm. Right. Oh yes Romeo and Juliet. Oh, I loved Leslie Howard.

VB: Mm.

BC: HE was the one in Smilin' Through. And erm, that's when I first... Oh, and then David Copperfield. Freddie Bartholomew and erm, Frank Laughton was the grown-up David. And he was married to Evelyn Laye. Who actually came to the 00:35:00house. Erm, she came for treatment. My husband actually--

VB: Oh!

BC: And eh, and I told her that I remembered Frank Laughton. Because he died young. She was married to Sonny Hale first and then she married Frank Laughton who was younger than herself. But I think she was very much in love with him.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And erm, yes, she came here and we had a long chat about her film, which I loved. It was an English film, it was called Evensong and it has been shown on TV since. Where she plays an operatic star. And erm, it was a good film, very good film. Jean Harlow. Well of course [pause 2 seconds] that was a terrible shock everybody had when she died. Oh, no that's Sally Gray. That's not Jean Harlow. She was an English actress. She was in a film at the beginning of the 00:36:00war with erm, Anton Walbrook called [pause 2 seconds] Dangerous Moonlight.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And there was a famous piano theme that came from that. Eh, she didn't make much. Carole Lombard. Well, I don't know. There's Leslie Banks.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mae West. My mother would never allow me to see Mae West.

VB: Is that right?

BC: [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: Oh yes. She was a sex symbol, you see.

VB: Ah! [laughs]

BC: So they thought I might be spoiled if I saw her. There's Flora Robson.

VB: Mhm.

BC: That autograph I have. Marlene. Maureen O'Sullivan. E-erm, yes, she was a pretty little thing. She was in erm [pause 2 seconds] she was in Barretts of Wimpole Street.

VB: Oh yes.

BC: Mhm. And Charles Laughton of course. Oh! 'Henry the Eighth' [referring to The Private Life of Henry VIII]. Well, you know, everybody queued up to see that. And then Grace Moore. Have you got anything? 'Cause Grace Moore I loved. Because she was a singer--

VB: Mhm.

BC: And she made, the first film was One Night of Love. It was a good film, with Tullio Carminati. And erm and eh, yes! It was the first time I think that opera had been broadcast. And, no, not broadcast. Filmed. And then she came to England after One Night of Love and she was in 'Bohème' at Covent Garden. I remember queuing up for five hours to hear her.

VB: Aw!

BC: [laughs]

VB: And was it worth it?

BC: Oh yeah, we-ell. I mean, when you compare her performance with those of the singers of today, I mean it was a pale shadow.

VB: Mm.

BC: But I thought she was marvellous. Erm, and she made a few films that were very weak and then she was killed in an air crash. Mhm. Merle Oberon. Yes. We-ell, she was in 'Henry the Eighth' [referring to The Private Life of Henry VIII]. She was Ann Boleyn. Erm, never thought too much of her. Well, Vivien Leigh was of course, lovely, beautiful girl, and a great actress, I think. Oh 00:38:00Tilly Losch! Now she was a friend of mine! [laughs]

VB: Really! [laughs]

BC: Yes. She was in The Good Earth. And she was also in a film I've got on tape actually. Erm The Garden of Allah.

VB: Aw yes! Aw.

BC: She was in that. And I've got that on tape. I didn't know she was going to be in it, but there she was! Erm, yes, I knew her, when she was in her seventies. Erm, I got to know her through one of my singing coaches. Eh, 'cause he, they were both Viennese. So he knew her well and he introduced me to her and I used to go and see her a lot.

VB: Oh!

BC: She was always ringing me up because she was lonely. She'd been a beauty in her day and had masses of admirers. But, you see, when she got older, she was, she was lonely.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Nice photograph that. Mhm. Good old Tilly. Eh, Danielle Darrieux. She was 00:39:00gorgeous. Yeah. Erm, oh there's my [laughs] heartthrob.

VB: Anton Walbrook.

BC: Oh, dear. I loved him. Yes. Oh.

VB: He's got wonderful eyes, hasn't he?

BC: Oh, he was very romantic until I found out he was queer. [laughs]

VB: Was he?

BC: That shocked me. Yes. I couldn't get over that. Erm, yes, Anna Neagle. Yes. Gracie. And Sonja. Eh Robert. He was never my heartthrob.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Paulette Goddard. Norma [Shearer]. Erm Robert Montgomery I liked. Yes. Oh there! Three Smart Girls.

VB: Ah!

BC: Deanna Durbin. She could only have been about thirteen, fourteen then. Eh, this is a lovely book. There's The Good Earth. Clark Gable. He was never my type either. [laughs] Elizabeth Allan. Robert, oh! Robert Donat. Mhm. Oh what a 00:40:00lovely book! '38. Daily Express publication. Ginger Rogers. Of cour-- Aw!

VB: Ah.

BC: I don't know. She had something. Garbo. Erm that's eh, Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier.

VB: Oh yes.

BC: Yeah. That's Jean Simmons, I think, isn't it? Eh, Anna Neagle. Herbert Wilcox. That's Anton Walbrook. What film is that? Oh Vic, no, that can't be 'Victoria' [referring to Sixty Glorious Years]. The Rat. Erm, oh Simone Signoret. Lovely little French actress. [pause 2 seconds] Raymond Massey. The Drum. Wallace Beery. Irene Dunne. She had a lovely voice. Ah, there you are! There's Nova Pilbeam!

VB: Ah yes.

BC: That was a Hitchcock film.

VB: Mm.

BC: That's a terrible photograph.

VB: Ah, it's not very flattering, is it?

BC: No. No. But what happened to Little Friend? That's what I want to know. That film. There's no means of finding out is there? [pause 2 seconds] Well, if you want to know about a thing like that, who do you contact?

VB: I think, you might be able to find out through the Museum of the Moving Image, or... They might be able to--

BC: You think so.

VB: Even if they didn't know themselves, they might be able to put you--

BC: I think I'd have to go there, I couldn't... Yeah. Erm, 'cause I've often wondered.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Jane Withers. She was very good. She was a better actress than Shirley Temple.

VB: Really?

BC: Mhm. They were often in films together and she outshone her. This is a good actress, May Robson.

VB: Oh yes. Ah!

BC: She was quite an elderly woman.

VB: She's one of these faces that I know. I'm sure she must've been in a lot of films in that sort of role.

BC: Yes. She did.

VB: The sort of erm--

BC: She did. 'Apple Annie' [possibly referring to Little Orphan Annie] was her first film.

VB: Ah! I see.

BC: Everybody was talking about 'Apple Annie'. May Robson. She didn't make too many films. Who's that? [pause 2 seconds] Ann Rutherford. Warner Baxter. Bette Davis. Oh! There's Kay Francis. She was gorgeous looking. But she just, don't know. [coughs] You never see a film of hers. Merle Oberon. Oh, lovely book. Ah! [laughs] [pause 2 seconds] Yes, I only wish I'd erm, Mad About Music, that's Deanna Durbin. I wish I'd kept my film magazines. I had masses and masses of them. Right. Have you had a biscuit?

VB: I'm fine just now thanks. That's lovely.

BC: Ah, The Buccaneer. Jessie Matthews! Oh yes. She rose from, I don't know, she 00:43:00was [pause 2 seconds] I think her parents had a stall in one of the markets in Soho. And she was just a natural. She could dance. And sing. And she adopted this very posh accent. And eh, she was successful. Claudette Colbert. Shirley Temple. Alice, oh, Alice Faye. The men liked Alice Faye! [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

[pause 3 seconds]

BC: Yes, she was good. Joan Crawford. Claudette Colbert. There's Charles Boyer.

VB: Oh yes.

BC: [pause 4 seconds] Charles Boyer! They're terrible photographs! [laughs]

VB: They are. Yes.

BC: So bad. Mm. Barbara Stanwyck. Patricia Ellis. Don't remember her. Oh Joan Fontaine of course, was beautiful.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Erm, Ann Todd. She was English. She died not very long ago. Oh! Valerie Hobson, what do you know, the wife of Profumo.

VB: Of course! Yes.

BC: [inaudible]

VB: The gowns are just so beautiful in that.

BC: Oh ye-es!

VB: Getting distracted.

BC: Well they had wonderful erm designers.

VB: Mm.

BC: There was somebody from MGM called Edith Head, I think. She was famous. I can't remember who designed Garbo's clothes but, yeah. They were good [pause 2 seconds] designers. Fred Astaire. Mr and Mrs Fred Astaire. Oh! She was Phyllis Potter. June Lang! Oh she was beautiful. She had been a nun, or, or--

VB: Really?

BC: Mhm. [pause 2 seconds] She used to be called June Vlasek. Yeah. Beautiful girl. Who's that? Dorothy Arzner. Never heard of her, don't know her. [pause 3 00:45:00seconds] Erm [inaudible] Oh there's Nova Pilbeam there!

VB: Ah, yes.

BC: There you are. [reading] "The little girl of Little Friend as a young woman now and very pretty one. Tudor Rose." It wasn't 'Tudor Rose'. I think it was erm, 'Lady Jane', it was called 'Lady Jane Grey'.

VB: Ah.

BC: They must have altered it. "She's already an established grown-up. Her latest film is Young and Innocent." That's right. That was with eh, that was a Hitchcock film.

VB: Mhm.

BC: She was an English rose. Aw, Katharine Hepburn. Brilliant. Yes. Brilliant. And Annabella. Paul Muni. Oh, well, he was uh! What an actor! Erm, now he was Emile Zola. That's right. And he was, every film he did was brilliant! Brilliant actor. I think the best of that period.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Fredric March I liked-- Billie [inaudible] beautiful girl, [Jean Mc?], Dorothy Lamour, Gene Raymond. Luise Rainer. She was Viennese. She came and did a film called Escapade and she was in The Good Earth. But I don't know. She didn't last too long.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And then there was a girl called Anna Sten. Have you heard of her?

VB: The name does--

BC: You see, they wanted to have, another film company wanted to have someone to rival Garbo. And erm, they brought this girl over from Poland, was it? Or Russia, or somewhere. Don't know. And they named her Anna Sten. And they groomed her. They did everything to, to groom this star. And, they put her in a film with Fredric March called, it was one of erm, ah dear. Can't remember [laughs] 00:47:00the name--

VB: [laughs]

BC: Of the film now [probably referring to We Live Again]. Erm, as soon as you've gone I know I'll remember.

VB: Yes. [laughs]

BC: It was a Russian. It was a translation of a Russian, had been a Russian novel. And erm, and made into a scenario for a film. And she made that film which was good. It was a good film. And then they put her in another film and, she just fizzled out.

VB: Mhm.

BC: She just didn't make it. They sunk, I don't know, thousands and thousands of pounds into her. To groom her for stardom. But she just hadn't got what it took.

VB: I suppose that's right as you say.

BC: Yeah.

VB: You can't make someone--

BC: That's right!

VB: Into a Garbo. [laughs]

BC: That's right. You can't. That's right. She just didn't have it. [pause 2 seconds] Erm, she was beautiful. Joan Bennett.

VB: Joan Bennett.

BC: Oh, yes! What a lovely face. Erm, the sister of Constance Bennett.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Jeanette MacDonald. The Firefly. And of course that's eh, Camille. [pause 3 00:48:00seconds] Directors. René Clair.

VB: Mhm!

BC: Hitchcock.

VB: Was that something that interested you, during the thirties? The direction and the photography and--

BC: No. I don't think I took much notice of who directed.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I mean, that came much later. Now I'm very interested in the directors and so forth. But erm, I mean there was Fritz Lang. There were wonderful directors. And a lot of them came from the Continent. Erm, Fritz Lang. Oh, I knew when it was a Hitchcock film. Erm, I don't know who directed Boris Karloff in erm Frankenstein! [laughs]

VB: Oh! [laughs].

BC: That was, they were good films. I loved those. King Kong and things like that.

VB: Oh yes.

BC: Mhmm. They were the ones I used to erm, you know, skip school for.

VB: Really? [laughs]

BC: Yeah, because my mother wouldn't have let me go to see them. [laughs]

VB: Ah I see.

BC: King Kong. I went to see it on my own. And Frankenstein. And the Bride of Frankenstein! Mhm. Oh what a lovely album. Aw! I should think that's worth quite a bit.

VB: Mhm. I think it, yeah. It was fairly expensive [laughs] I think.

BC: I bet it was.

VB: Yeah.

BC: I don't think there are many of them left any more.

VB: No.

BC: Oh yes.

VB: It's interesting what you're saying though. It sounds as if your mother liked to--

BC: Protect me.

VB: Protect you.

BC: Oh-h! Yes! Of course! Yes! I mean you couldn't say, well, I mean, in the first place films were never that risqué that they are anything like they are today! You know there was a limit on the number of seconds they could kiss each other. And then it was always erm, closed mouth. It was never this open mouth kissing. [laughs] And erm, a man could be lying on a bed with a woman as long as he had one foot on the floor. Did you know that? [laughs] And erm, you know, it 00:50:00was totally harmless. But, I suppose young girls were more protected in those days.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And then, well, King Kong wasn't anything to worry about, except that it was frightening.

VB: Yes.

BC: Yes. Horrifying. But I loved it. You know. [laughs] The more horrifying it was, the more I liked it.

VB: Mhm.

BC: So I went to see it on my own. Oh-h! Erm, what else can I tell you?

VB: Well, I think probably the last thing that I'd like to ask is eh, obviously film was very important to you then.

BC: Still is. [laughs]

VB: [laughs] I mean, how did you actually feel when you were watching the films in the thirties?

BC: Oh, well. It was a whole wonderful world. I mean there was no TV and erm, what was there? You know, I didn't go that much to the theatre either at that age. I mean if I went to the theatre it was an event. And if I went once a year 00:51:00it was, you know. Erm, so film was a marvellous escape world. Erm, I think in the previous one you, when you previously came, I told you my mother used to go in for sixpence. And she'd have two films. An A film and a B film and tea. And the organ would [laughs] come up.

VB: Ah.

BC: And all that. Yeah, it was a, a fantastic way of spending either a whole afternoon or an evening. And eh, how did I feel? Oh, excited. Terribly excited. You'd go into this dark, dark place. [coughs] And the films then of course were continuous. You know, they wasn't, they weren't set to programmes. [coughs] Sorry. [pause 2 seconds] And eh, so, it didn't matter when you went in, if you didn't mind coming in halfway through. And then you could sit it round again, for as often as you'd want to. Nobody pushed you out. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: And erm, oh yes! Oh, wonderful atmosphere. But very smoky, full of smoke. And erm, always packed! [clanging noise in background] Stop it. [pause 2 seconds] Always packed. And usually queues. Mhm. Specially if it was, you know, a good film. And most of them were, you know, fairly popular. Erm, it was just exciting. Terribly exciting [laughs] you know. Specially if it was, you know, somebody you really wanted to see, like Garbo or, or eh, you know, Grace Moore. One of those good stars. Eh, yes. It was a thrill.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Cinema was a real thrill in those days. Mhm. Yeah. Talking about it I can almost feel how I felt. Yeah. Yeah. [laughs] Mhm. It was wonderful. [pause 3 00:53:00seconds] What is that? Another one. Oh no...

VB: This is another one. Yes! Would you like a [pause 2 seconds]. This is actually earlier.

BC: Oh! Garbo!

VB: I think it's 1935. [laughs]

BC: Oh! How lovely! Oh this is The Painted Veil. Mhmm. Was that eight pounds?

VB: Mhm.

BC: Uh! Oh gracious me!

VB: A bargain I think. [laughs]

BC: It was probably about two shillings.

VB: That's true. [laughs]

BC: Yeah. This is not Daily Ex, oh it is! It's 'Daily Express'. Mhm. How wonderful. Well Ernst Lubitsch. Yes. He was a famous director. Oh! Madeleine Carroll. Jean Parker. Jean Muir. Matheson Lang. Well he was the one that was in erm Little Friend with Nova Pilbeam.

VB: Ah! Yes.

BC: Yeah. Gitta Alpar. She was Ger--, eh, Viennese. Yes. Oh that's the girl!

VB: Oh there's your Anna Sten!

BC: Anna Sten.

VB: Yes.

BC: Erm, yes. Now, you see, it was all sort of made up.

VB: Aw. That's interesting. Because she's almost like a parody of Garbo! [laughs]

BC: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. she's eh...

VB: But it was false, you know.

BC: Erm, 'Lady of the Boulevards'. It wasn't called 'Lady of the Boulevards'. It was called, it was a novel by Zola. It wasn't called 'Lady of the Boulevards' [referring to Nana].

VB: Mhm.

BC: But I didn't see it actually. But I saw the first film. The Russian novel. Kay Francis. Gary Cooper. Herbert Marshall. He was lovely, Herbert Marshall. Charlie Ruggles. Erm, Jeanette MacDonald. [laughs] I used to think she had such a wonderful voice but when I hear it now it's quite pathetic.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Madeleine Carroll. Mhm. Ginger. Oh, The Sign of the Cross! That was oh! That was exciting. And erm Mutiny on the, the original Mutiny on the Bounty, wow! Oh 00:55:00there's erm, Luise Rainer. She was in The Good Earth. She was a Viennese girl. Jack Hulbert. They were a very good team, Jack Hulbert and his wife, Cicely Courtneidge.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Fay Wray. [Oakley?] Jessie Matthews. Uh! There's Garbo.

VB: Ah, Anna Karenina.

BC: Mhm. Erm, there's Grace Moore! Oh yeah!

VB: Ah!

BC: In One Night of Love. Or was that On Wings of Song? Yes. [pause 3 seconds] Jessie Matthews. She was a good dancer. [pause 2 seconds; sighs] Erm. Mhmm. Oh there's Victoria Hopper. The Constant Nymph.

VB: Ah, yes.

BC: Wife of Basil Dean. There you are. "It was produced," oh Whom the Gods Love, produced by Basil Dean. Yes. That's his wife. [pause 2 seconds] Oh, fascinating 00:56:00books. Rene Ray. I remember that. Madeleine Carroll. Erm, Jack Buchanan!

VB: [laughs]

BC: Oh yes! What was the film with Jack Buchanan? Erm, eh, eh, something with Vienna. Erm, eh, is there anything about him here? Where he sang, 'Good Night Vienna'? [sings]

VB: Mhm.

BC: "Da da da dee da dum, dee, dee." [sings] What was the film called? Not good, yes it was probably called Good Night, Vienna.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhmm. Yeah I remember that. That was a Hitchcock. [Note: Good Night, Vienna was directed by Herbert Wilcox] That was a Hitchcock.

VB: Was it!

BC: Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, I'm sure it was.

VB: Ah!

BC: Let's have a look. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: That must've been one of his early films then.

BC: Oh! René Clair! Sorry.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Sorry. Sorry. René Clair. Quite right. Yes. Yes it was.

VB: 'Cause it was good that. I remember seeing that, not that long ago.

BC: You've seen it.

VB: Yes.

BC: Oh there's Bergner.

VB: Ah yes.

BC: And Korda. Or course Korda was the director in those days [probably referring to Zoltan Korda]. He made erm, oh he came here from Hungary.

VB: Mhm.

BC: He and his brother [referring to Alexander Korda]. And they made 'Henry the Eighth' [referring to The Private Life of Henry VIII]. You know, the Charles Laughton. Fantastic director he was. And then he went to Hollywood unfortunately.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Yeah, it's a nice picture of Bergner.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Erm-- [pause 2 seconds] Who's that? Margo. Oh yeah. [pause 2 seconds] Claude Rains. Mhm. Oh! Leslie Howard! Yes. He was, I was surprised to hear that he was erm-- [pause 2 seconds] not Hungarian. What, he was Continental, came from the 00:58:00Continent [Note: according to imdb he was born in London to Hungarian Jewish parents].

VB: Really!

BC: Yes.

VB: He's so, he's almost like the quintessential Englishman.

BC: Well, he sounded like it, but he wasn't.

VB: Yeah. That's amazing.

BC: Yes, yes.

VB: Mhm.

BC: He was killed. His plane disappeared over the Channel. Lillian Harvey. [pause 3 seconds] Do you want to get on now? I don't want to hold you up [amused voice].

VB: No, not at all.

BC: She was the wife of Richard Tauber, Diana Napier.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Very attractive girl. Jane Baxter. Mhm.

VB: Oh there's Escape Me Never.

BC: That's Escape Me Never. Yes. Uh!

VB: [laughs]

BC: Beautiful film. I wish they'd show that on television.

VB: It looks wonderful.

BC: She has this illegitimate child and it dies and aw!

VB: Aw!

BC: And her attitude, her, the effect it has on her was mainly, we haven't seen 00:59:00acting like that in British films.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Never liked her very much. [laughs]

VB: Ruby Keeler.

BC: Mhm. Constance Cummings. She was married to an English MP. Erm, horror films. Yes, I loved the horror. Eh, Gracie Fields. Will Rogers. Marvellous books these were.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Did you pick them up here in London? Or in--

VB: No. In Glasgow.

BC: Really!

VB: Yeah.

BC: Good Lord. I don't think I had any albums but I had all the 'Picturegoers'.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Yvonne Arnaud. She was French. Alice Faye. Glenda Farrell. You know Glenda Jackson was named, her mother [laughs] liked Glenda Farrell.

VB: Was she? Ah! [laughs]

BC: And so she named. She was a brilliant actress. Margaret Sullavan. Brilliant. Can't remember the film. It wasn't The Good Fairy but the first film I saw her in I thought was absolutely, oh, I think it was 'The Little Shop on the Corner' 01:00:00or something [referring to The Shop Around the Corner]. Excellent actress. Well of course, Katharine Hepburn was.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Erm, Merle Oberon. Adolphe Menjou. Francis Drake. Ida Lupino. Eh, there's Ann Harding. Ann Harding [pause 3 seconds] I can't think of the name of that erm, Shaw play. Eh, it's just one name, like Desdemona but it's not Desdemona. And she was in it.

VB: Not 'Pygmalion'.

BC: No, no.

VB: That's the only one I can think of that's got one, one word title.

BC: No. It's a woman's name.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Got a block.

BC: There's Elisabeth Bergner.

VB: Mhm.

BC: She did 'Catherine the Great' [referring to The Rise of Catherine the Great]. Around the time that Marlene did it in eh, also 'Catherine the Great' 01:01:00[referring to The Scarlet Empress] in Hollywood.

VB: Yes.

BC: But the Marlene film eh, was a better film.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Oh Peter Lorre!

VB: Oh!

BC: Mhmm. Mhm.

VB: [laughs]

BC: [inaudible] Williams. Otto Kruger. Janet Gaynor. Well I think I told you last time that I saw Janet Gaynor, the very first silent film which I saw. Janet Gaynor and Charles Farrell in 7th Heaven.

VB: Ah.

BC: And I remember it to this day. Shots from it, you know.

VB: Mm.

BC: I can remember them going up--

VB: That's interesting.

BC: Going up on this spiral staircase.

VB: Did you find that with films? That you tend to remember certain scenes from them that made an impression or--

BC: Oh yes. Oh yes.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I mean, in that Escape Me Never with Bergner, I mean, the erm, the scene 01:02:00where she finds out that her baby is dead. And the scene of her after that, what she does after. Aw! It's absolutely mind-blowing.

VB: Mhm.

BC: It was, she was so good. [pause 2 seconds] Marie Dressler and Wallace Beery. They were a good team those two.

[End of Side B]

[End of Tape One]

[Start of Tape Two]

[Start of Side A]

BC: Lovely woman. And she used to walk up the road. She didn't eh, she didn't have a car. She's still alive! [possibly referring to Evelyn Laye]

VB: Really!

BC: Mhm.

VB: She was certainly lovely.

BC: Oh, she was beautiful. Oh, lovely. Norma Shearer. [pause 2 seconds]. But however lovely [laughs] they're terrible photographs, I think.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Well I suppose it was good value for money in those days. Mutiny on the Bounty. Not many here of Garbo.

VB: No.

BC: Escapade. That was Luise Rainer's first film. Escapade. And it was the remake of a film which had Anton Walbrook in it.

VB: Ah.

BC: Erm, the remake of an Austrian or German film. Which wasn't called Escapade [referring to Maskerade].

VB: Mhm.

BC: They called it Escapade. So! There we are. Mhm. [pause 2 seconds] Anna Karenina. Mhm. [pause 2 seconds] Don't remember that scene. Oh lovely books! [laughs]

VB: I like that one as well because you've got a bit about the stars at the back.

BC: Oh, yes. Dolores del Rio! Oh yes. I remember her in a silent film. I don't know what it was called. But she was, she was in the silents. It was one of the earliest films with her. Dolores del Rio. She was the girlfriend, I think Orson 01:04:00Wells was fascinated by her.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhm. Virginia Bruce. Margot Grahame. Mhm. [pause 3 seconds] Oh yes, they give you a little rundown.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mm. Oh! Fascinating!

VB: Were you interested in the lives of the stars? During the thirties.

BC: Oh ye-es! Oh yes. Yes. There you are. Nova Pilbeam. Sixteen-year-old player is Nova Marjorie Pilbeam. I didn't know that. Daughter of Arnold Pilbeam, late Sir Nigel Playfair's manager. Name Nova was given her to avoid confusion with her mother's name, Marjorie. When she was born was called Nova Marjorie. New Marjorie. Oh!

VB: [laughs]

BC: She started dancing at the Royal Academy. Mhm! And gained scholarship in elocution. Played Marigold [laughs]. Oh Viertel! Berthold Viertel chose [her] to 01:05:00play in Little Friend, has since appeared in The Man Who Knew Too Much. Yeah. Oh! She's still alive. She's still around somewhere. And I just wonder what's happened to her film. A lovely film. Erm, oh gracious! [bursts out laughing] Takes me back!

VB: Mhm.

BC: It really does. Eight pounds! Good lord [tuts] Well of course if you're doing the project...

VB: Well this is it.

BC: This is absolutely invaluable.

VB: Yes.

BC: I have got some up-to-date albums, they're no good to you I suppose, are they?

VB: Erm, ones that you're--

BC: Well ones that were given to me I suppose in the sixties, seventies. I suppose you've got those have you?

VB: Erm, could well do.

BC: Would they be any, any use to you?

VB: I wouldn't mind having a look anyway. [laughs]

BC: Well, I'll show you them.

VB: Ah. That would be great.

BC: Just a second.

[pause 3 seconds; BC leaves room]

BC: [voice from distance] Have a biscuit, Val.

VB: Thanks.

[pause until 01:06:57]

BC: [shouts from distance asking for help]

VB: Ah! Of course.

[voices in background; pause until 1:07:49]

BC: [comes back into room] I think we've got to [laughs] clear the table a bit!

VB: Oh!

BC: Any more apple pie?

VB: I'm fine actually. That was lovely.

BC: Are you sure?

VB: Really lovely.

BC: You have some biscuits. Do help yourself.

VB: Right. I'll put this photocopy in here as well, just while I remember.

BC: Yes. Okay. Erm, I can't remember why I made that photocopy. I must have had a reason at the time but I'm glad I did.

VB: That's great. Yes, I know. That's very useful to us.

BC: [cups being put on table] I may have had it made after you came and told you that I would do it. Okay.

VB: I might take a look at these German ones then. They look very interesting.

BC: Oh yeah. Oh! I didn't realise they were in my bedroom. There I was looking in the surgery [Mrs Cooper's husband was a doctor].

VB: So these are from 1935. Well this one's 1935.

BC: Yeah.

VB: These are wonderful with the stills actually sort of inserted in it, I suppose you would say.

BC: Yes. There you can see the... One is a really early one.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I'm not sure if it's this one. [pause 4 seconds]. Oh! Worth about ten pounds, each album in auction. That was in '83. [laughs] I thought of selling them then.

VB: Ah.

BC: Auctioning them.

VB: This one's 1935. This one.

BC: Oh, right. I think that's the older one, mhm, that contains the silents. Erm, [pause 2 seconds] now Pallenberg, he was a famous actor.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Well I suppose they all were, and Basserman. I remember my husband talking about Albert Bassermann. Asta Nielsen. [pause 3 seconds] These are the silents. Some of these photographs are--

VB: Mhm.

BC: Hilarious.

VB: They're very dramatic, aren't they?

BC: Oh yes. Yes. Mia May, whoever she was. [pause 4 seconds] Erm, I think we're 01:10:00still in the silent era here. [pause 3 seconds] Emil Jannings. Who was in erm, [pause 3 seconds] Emil Jannings, wasn't he in erm, eh the erm, the Marlene eh, tch! Wasn't that Jannings? The professor? In the eh--

VB: The Blue Angel?

BC: Blue Angel.

VB: Actually, when you say that I think he was. Yes.

BC: Yes. There he is a young man, apparently. Yes. "Young and beautiful in his first film Fromont Junior, Risler Senior". Yes. That was Jannings. Mhm. Pola Negri. She was famous. Oh there's Conrad Veidt in a German film.

VB: Ah!

BC: Walter Slezak. His son is in films. Erm, somebody Slezak [possibly referring to daughter, Emmy-winning Erika].

VB: Mhm.

BC: He went to Hollywood. Pola Negri. [pause 3 seconds] Now, I think these are still, I think most of these are, are silents.

VB: Mhm.

BC: [turns pages 8 seconds] They are funny. [pause 2 seconds] There's Emil Jannings.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And Pola Negri. The Eyes of the Mummy. [laughs]

VB: Oh. [laughs]

BC: There's another one of Emil Jannings. [pause 4 seconds] Mia May. See, look 01:12:00at the sets they did in those days.

VB: Incredible.

BC: Emil Jannings. Pola Negri. Conrad Veidt. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: It must've been exciting seeing the sets when you were--

BC: Oh, yes.

VB: Going into the film studios.

BC: Oh yes! [laughs] Oh, I remember those. 'Cause they've sold them now. They're not studios any more. Which is sad.

VB: Mhm.

BC: As I say, they kept them going as film studios until recent years.

VB: That was the Elstree ones?

BC: Mhm.

VB: You're saying. Yeah.

BC: Yeah, yeah. I used to live in Hendon, and that wasn't far, you see.

VB: Ah I see.

BC: Used to take the Underground and walk up there. What a great thrill that was. In all of the school holidays. [laughs]

VB: Mhm. [laughs]

BC: Lil Dagover. Pola Negri. Emil Jannings. [pause 3 seconds]. Now, these are all silents.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And the other one I think is um [pause 3 seconds], yeah, these are all silents. Oh these are typical of the between-the-wars Hitler period. There's Leni Riefenstahl. You know her. You know she was a famous director. She was first an actress and then she directed the erm the 1936 Olympics [referring to Olympia}.

VB: Oh!

BC: And she's famous.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Mhm. And she's often been on television. She's an old lady now. She's still alive. As far as I know. Lilian Harvey you see, went to Germany--

VB: Ah!

BC: Made films there. Erm, Mady Christians. Oh funny, these photographs! Oh, there's erm Francis Lederer. Actually, I took a copy of this and I sent to him 01:14:00'cause he lives in, well, I don't-- he's probably dead now.

VB: Mhm.

BC: But somebody came from America that knew him.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And, when he was here at dinner one evening he said, "Would you like to write a note to Francis Lederer? I can give it to him." So I wrote a note and I told him eh the first film I'd seen that I fell in love with him. And erm and so on. And my husband wrote a note also and said, "When-- I remember seeing your father in the Vienna Opera..." Eh, no! "In the Vienna National Theatre." And so on. And, he wrote back [laughs] and he wrote me a letter and he thanked me for, you know, my letter and then he wrote to my husband and he said, "I think you have a little bit confused, I never had a father who was in the [laughs] Vienna Theatre!" [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: And my husband was really very erm staggered by it.

VB: Ah.

BC: That he could make such a mistake. Erm, oh there's Marlene.

VB: Oh yes.

BC: In one of her German films.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Quite a chubby little girl.

VB: She was. Yes. She changed quite a lot.

[pause 4 seconds]

BC: Look at the expressions.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Fritz Kortner. He was well known. That's him. Erm, there's Fritz Kortner. Conrad Veidt. Lot of them came from the Continent. And had to learn to speak English.

VB: Mhm.

BC: So, there we are. Casanova. [pause 2 seconds] So this is the early one [possibly referring to 1928 version dir. Erik Charell].

VB: Mhm.

BC: 'Doctor Caligari', 'Das Cabinet' is 'Doctor Caligari' [referring to The Cabinet of Dr Caligari]

VB: Oh yes.

BC: Don't know whether you've seen it. It has been on television.

VB: Mhm.

BC: It was quite something that film. It was the forerunner of a new type of 01:16:00film. Erm, so there we are, that's silent film. [the Golan?] Lilian Harvey. Right. That's that. And then, this is later.

VB: Mhm. [pause 3 seconds] They're wonderful books. It's like a history of German film.

BC: They are. They really are. Yes.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Dolly Haas. Brigitte Helm. Renate Müller. They were all famous in their time. Really famous.

VB: Mhm.

BC: 'Course this is the talkies now.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Oh there's Mädchen in Uniform. There's Dorothea Wieck.

VB: Mm.

BC: No, she's Dorothea Wieck and that's Hertha Thiele. Lovely, lovely film! Tch! 01:17:00They should show it again. [said with emphasis] Or it should come back. Somewhere.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Erm Anny Ondra. Who was the wife of Max Schmeling, the boxer. Hans Albers. Anny Ondra. Erm you know who liked her very much, Anny Ondra, erm, [pause 2 seconds] Hitchcock.

VB: Ah!

BC: He used her in one of his films but he had her voice dubbed.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Because erm this was when talkies first came in.

VB: Ah I see.

BC: And he didn't think her voice was... There's Leni Riefenstahl in a film. [inaudible]. Who's this? Magda Schneider. You know she had a daughter, tch, phew! What was her name? Something Schneider? And she, she died very young 01:18:00[referring to Romy Schneider].

VB: Mhm.

BC: I think she committed suicide. [Ianke Purer?] He was a singer. Leo Slezack. [Richard] Tauber, in The Land of Smiles.

VB: They look very sophisticated films, a lot of these, don't they?

BC: Eh, we-ell. You know, they were sort of artificial, mostly--

VB: Mhm.

BC: Well! The real art films--

VB: Mhm.

BC: You know, the really good ones were, I mean you could see today and watch today. There's Marlene in The Blue Angel. Erm, well that's pretty, I don't suppose there are many more that you would know. Hans Albers.

VB: Mhm.

BC: [pause 3 seconds] But erm, very interesting.

VB: That's very interesting, yes.

BC: Mhm. Erm, [pause 2 seconds] Renate Müller. There's, you see his name was Adolf Wohlbrück.

VB: Ah.

BC: Originally. 'Masquerade' [referring to Masquerade in Vienna]. Uh! That was a good film. Brilliant film. That's the first time I saw him. And that was in that German film.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And then he came to England during, between the wars. Called himself Anton Walbrook.

VB: Mhm.

BC: Paula Wesseley. Very famous Austrian actress. [pause 2 seconds] I mean I had seen her-- There's Leni Riefenstahl in a film called The Blue Light. And there's Anton Walbrook again.

VB: Is it 'English Heiress' that?

BC: Is it what?

VB: The title. It looked like 'The English Heiress' but eh, I don't speak German 01:20:00[referring to Die englische Heirat, 1934]. [laughs]

BC: What, here?

VB: Eh, this one.

BC: No, The English--

VB: English--

BC: Wedding.

VB: Wedding. Yeah.

BC: Marriage.

VB: Marriage.

BC: Mhm.

VB: It's sort of ironic. [laughs]

BC: Mhm. Victor and VIctoria. Now that's-- Julie Andrews made that.

VB: Ah! Yes, of course.

BC: She did a remake of that [referring to Victor/Victoria]. That was the year. Yeah. It's a sort of crossdress thing. [pause 2 seconds] Erm. [pause 8 seconds; looking through book] Okay! You don't have a museum in erm Glasgow like MOMI do you?

VB: Erm, we have the Scottish Film Archive.

BC: Oh you do.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Is it like a museum which you can go and--

VB: It's erm, no, it's not like a museum--

BC: Ah.

VB: It's more just for consulting.

BC: Oh I see. I see. Erm, well. These are the books.

VB: Mhm. Oh. [laughs] Ronald Colman.

BC: Mhm. John Gilbert. I don't know whether you'd be interested in looking at these.

VB: Must say I'm quite--

BC: Have a quick look?

VB: Have a quick look. Is it something you've found you refer back to a lot?

BC: I, sorry.

VB: Not that one! [laughs]

BC: Erm, well I, yes I use them for reference.

VB: Yes.

BC: But I mean if you want to borrow them, I mean, you know, you can do. But I don't know how you can carry them.

VB: I'm just thinking that actually. 'Cause I have got quite a lot of luggage.

BC: They are heavy books. Mm.

VB: Erm, 'Cause I've been away from home for about three and a half weeks so. [laughs]

BC: Oh! Right.

VB: I've got plenty. But eh, it's nice to have a chance to have a look through them anyway.

[pause 5 seconds]

VB: Animal stars! That's something we haven't talked about. [laughs]

BC: Oh right! Oh I remember Rin Tin Tin.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I don't think I ever saw him though. [pause 3 seconds]

VB: Baby Peggy.

BC: [laughs] And eh, King Kong.

VB: Oh. Yes. [laughs]

BC: She was gorgeous looking girl. Dolores Costello. Mhm. She was married to one of the Barrymores. Beautiful girl.

VB: Norma Shearer again.

BC: Good Lord. In what?

VB: Empty Hands, 1924.

BC: Oh my God! Must've been a silent I would think.

VB: Mhm.

BC: [chuckles] Dolores del Rio.

VB: Myrna Loy.

BC: Oh no!

VB: 1927. Ham and Eggs at the Front.

BC: She looks as though she hasn't got any eyes! [laughs]

VB: It's interesting seeing how the stars sort of--

BC: Develop. Yeah.

VB: Develop, isn't it?

BC: Oh look at Garbo!

VB: Garbo.

BC: 1928. Tch!

VB: Mhm. Mysterious lady. Oh, Flesh and the Devil. [pause 2 seconds] Ronald Colman. Two Lovers.

BC: There you are! 7th Heaven.

VB: Ah yes!

BC: 1927.

VB: Yeah.

BC: [laughs] Mhm, Charles Farrell. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: MGM Show People 1928.

[pause 4 seconds]

VB: Just so many wonderful films and stars! It's just--

BC: Well that was the period in those days.

VB: Aw!

BC: Because there was nothing else for the people you know.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I mean the average person didn't go to the theatre. They couldn't afford it. 01:24:00For sixpence we could get in to see a film. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: As you're saying, with Madeleine Carroll, even the sort of offscreen clothes and everything are just beautiful.

BC: Oh that was the twenties.

VB: Mhm.

[pause 3 seconds]

BC: John Gilbert and--

VB: 'Glorious Night' [referring to His Glorious Night].

BC: Catherine Dale Owen. Never heard of her. [laughs] Aw, look at Garbo.

VB: Anna Christie.

BC: Mm. She was terrible in that I thought.

VB: Mhm!

BC: It was shown recently. I thought oh! What a boring film.

VB: [laughs] The first words, "Give me a visky! Ginger ale on the side!"

BC: "Don't be stingy, baby!" Oh they're famous words.

VB: Ah.

BC: Because they were her first words on sound film. [pause 2 seconds] Oh the 01:25:00Busby Berkeley films were fabulous! Aw they loved it. And he put them into a, this was, don't forget, during the erm Depression.

VB: Yes.

BC: And it put people into a fantasy world. It was wonderful for them.

VB: Mhm. The costumes and the set.

BC: Mhmm!

VB: All Quiet on the Western Front.

BC: Oh, wonderful film. The original one, yeah. Oh I saw this. Hallelujah.

VB: Ah.

BC: Yes. It was an all negro cast.

VB: That must've been very unusual. 1929.

BC: It was.

VB: Mhm.

BC: That's just reminded me. I did see it. Yeah. "Hallelujah!" [sings] "Hallelujah! Now shoo, shoo ya blues away!" [laughs] I remember singing it.

VB: Mhm. Lili Damita.

BC: Oh yeah. Lon Chaney. [laughs] The man of the thousand faces.

VB: Edward G. Robinson in Little Caesar.

BC: Mhm. Got his autograph too somewhere.

VB: Really!

BC: Mhm. Well he was a very great art collector. And my sister saw him in the gallery here and got his autograph. [laughs]

VB: It's amazing 'Cause well, thinking of him as a gangster and--

BC: [laughs]

VB: Not his real personality! Quite different. [laughs]

BC: Yes. He was quite a cultured man.

VB: Mhm. These are just wonderful.

[pause 5 seconds]

VB: Constance Bennett.

[pause 6 seconds]

BC: Oh Clara Bow!

VB: Mhm.

BC: Oh yes. Oh yes. She was quite a sex symbol. She was the IT girl.

VB: Mhm.

BC: You know that. Mhm. [pause 4 seconds] She was the one with sex-- Oh Mae West! [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

BC: Oh, she was forbidden. "Come up and see me sometime."

VB: [laughs] An amazing figure, hasn't she? [laughs]

BC: [laughs] An hour-glass. A real hour-glass.

VB: A real hour-glass yes.

[pause 3 seconds]

VB: And Jean Harlow.

BC: Yeah. She came to a very tragic end. She died very young. Mhm. [pause 2 seconds] That was a lovely film. Little, the original Little Women. [referring to 1933 version]

VB: Ah.

BC: With Katharine Hepburn. [sound of flicking through pages] Oh, that was a 01:28:00beautiful film.

VB: Oh and Joan Bennett as well.

BC: Yes.

VB: Yeah.

BC: She was the youngest daughter. 1933 was that? Good Lord. I was twelve. [laughs]

VB: Mhm.

BC: Mhm. Oh I loved it. [pause 2 seconds]

VB: You must've been about the right age to see it as well and really enjoy it.

BC: That's right. That's right. [inaudible] [pause 3 seconds] 'Gold Diggers' [probably referring to Gold Diggers of 1933]. Mhm. The imagination they put into these films.

VB: Really amazing.

BC: This is Busby Berkeley. [pause 4 seconds] There's Deanna.

VB: One Hundred Men and a Girl.

BC: Mhm. She's still kicking her heels somewhere in France.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And doesn't allow anybody to see her. You know, she's completely cut herself off. And she was wise to do it.

VB: Mhm.

BC: I mean, look at Judy Garland.

VB: Mhm. She must've been very young when she retired.

BC: Yes she, well, in her twenties.

VB: In her twenties.

BC: I mean her famous period was from the time she was fourteen.

VB: Yes.

BC: Until she was twenty, I suppose.

VB: Yeah.

BC: But she eh, didn't have much interest after that. [pause 2 seconds] There's Grace Moore. One Night of Love. Mhm.

VB: Carefree. Astaire and Rogers.

BC: Their dancing was amazing.

VB: Marx Brothers.

BC: Oh yeah! My brother was crazy about the Marx Brothers. Mhm.

VB: Oh It Happened One Night.

BC: Mhm. [amused laugh]

VB: Oh I remember this scene.

BC: [laughs] They had to blow the horn.

VB: Ah.

BC: The sort of Wall of Jericho to come down. [laughs] [pause 3 seconds]

VB: Oh The Invisible Man.

BC: Oh I saw that. Yes.

VB: Claude Rains.

BC: Yes, yes. Oh that's one I must've got off school for, you know.

VB: Mhm.

BC: And gone to see. [pause 3 seconds] Oh and I saw that too. A Midsummer Night's Dream.

VB: James Cagney!

BC: Beautiful. James Cagney was Bottom. Eh, erm Louise, eh Tina Louse is it?

VB: Mhm. Anita.

BC: Anita Louise.

VB: Yeah.

BC: Gorgeous looking girl. She was um, she was Titania.

VB: Mhm. It's interesting. It's a role I wouldn't have thought of Cagney--

BC: And Mickey Rooney was Puck.

VB: Ah!

BC: That was directed by erm Max Reinhardt.

VB: Ah. [Emile Zola?] [possibly referring to the Life of Emile Zola, 1937]

BC: Great acting. [pause 4 seconds]

VB: Westerns.

BC: Oh there's Marlene.

VB: Oh Destry Rides Again.

BC: Mhmm.

VB: I like James Stewart in that.

BC: Yes. Oh he was lovely.

VB: Yeah.

BC: He was a very appealing actor.

VB: Mhm. I watched one of his films on Sunday actually. It's a later one.

BC: Oh right.

VB: Erm, Bell Book and Candle. It was on on Sunday.

BC: He was on?

VB: Yeah.

BC: In the film?

VB: Mhm.

BC: Oh, because the play was Lily Palmer and Rex Harrison.

VB: Yes.

BC: They did the play.

VB: Erm, this was Kim Novak was the--

BC: A-ah, right!

VB: The young witch in it! [laughs]

BC: Oh right. Oh yeah.

VB: That's rather good. [pause 5 seconds] Ninotchka.

BC: Well I mean, look. Where do you ever see a face like that?

VB: I was just thinking the same thing.

BC: She was a one off.

VB: Even the way she carries herself, it's just--

BC: Mhmm.

VB: There's something very compelling about her isn't there?

BC: Oh I don't know what it is.

VB: Yeah.

BC: But it was. Yes. It definitely was.

VB: Yeah.

[pause 5 seconds]

VB: Tarzan.

[pause 5 seconds]

VB: I think the problem with these thirties films is where to stop! [laughs] There's just so many wonderful films.

BC: What's that? Oh, Gone with the Wind.

VB: Gone with the Wind.

BC: Mhm. Are these the girls that auditioned? [pause 3 seconds] Oh apparently they auditioned thousands of girls. And stars.

VB: I think they cast very well in that one. [laughs]

BC: Mhmm. She said she'd never worked as hard.

VB: I'm sure.

BC: Before or after. Terrible hard work.

VB: 'Cause the character changes quite a lot during the film doesn't it?

BC: Yes, it does. It does, and it's intense emotion [all the way through?]

VB: Yeah. That's right.

[pause 4 seconds]

BC: Orson Wells. Ah right.

VB: Aw, this is, this is--.

[tape cuts out]

[End of Side A]

[End of Interview]