Annie Wright (2 of 2)

Disclaimer: This interview was conducted in 1995 and concerns memories of 1930s life; as such there may be opinions expressed or words used that do not meet today's norms and expectations.

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* Transcript ID: AW-95-032AT002

* CCINTB Transcript ID: 95-32-11a-ac, 95-32-12a-z

* Tapes: AW-95-032OT003, AW-95-032OT004

* CCINTB Tapes ID: T95-32, T95-33

* Length: 01:53:29

* Wythenshawe, Manchester, 26 May 1995: Valentina Bold interviews Lily Sutcliffe

* Transcribed by Valentina Bold/Standardised by Annette Kuhn

* AW=Annie Wright, VB=Valentina Bold

* Notes: Second interview of two with Annie Wright; Sound Quality: Good.

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[Start of Tape One]

[Start of Side A]

[VB tape introduction]

AW: [mid-conversation] I said, over twenty years since I've had a phone, I said, I've never had a bill like this and I've lost my rebate--

VB: Oh dear.

AW: Because you're allowed erm, so many calls, you know.

AW: I said, aw well if you'd had a phone, you would've known, I said, it's 45 pence, 49 pence, I said, in, in the week, I said, and 39 it is after peak time, I said, and cheap rate at-- I said, you can phone your mother, I'll let you phone your mother in Southampton. 'Cause it doesn't cost me anything, he 00:01:00reverses the call, you see.

VB: Yeah.

AW: So, I said, you can phone your mother, I'm not stopping you phoning your mother, I said, but there's no way you're using it for taxis, specially late at night. She's cheeky really. Eh, you know, his girlfriend, like. She's dead cheeky. And erm, I said, and of course, he's a recovered alcoholic, you see, and he phones the units up. And he's on ages. You know, when he, he doesn't know what day it is. And he sits there ages! And I thought, God, you know. So I said to him, I said, "Do you realise the time you was on?" I said, "You reckon it up at 49 pence for three minutes." So of course, when he's like that, as I say, and I've had a talk with him. I said, "And will you tell Janette in future," I said. I'm not using it for taxis. 'Cause this has really finished me. My daughter, when I was telling me daughter, "Ooh," she said, "You never learn, do you," she 00:02:00said. "You're too soft." I said, I know, I said, but this time, I said, they were abusing it, you know. Anyway. I mean, the other night he came, I was just going to bed, quarter past twelve it must've been last week. Thursday, it was, I think. And I was just going to bed and the buzzer went and he was stood outside. So he said, "Will you phone a taxi up," he said. "We phoned for one," he said, "For twelve o'clock." Quarter past twelve! I said, it's probably on its way! 'Cause you've got to stand down, you see. Otherwise. 'Cause we. I mean when they come for the, to the Tower Block, they can hear the, you know, when the [?] you see, they're on ages. I mean, they do a trade in the taxis in the Tower Block. So I thought, Oh, I was really annoyed. I said, what this time of night! I said, what's she doing here? She's got three children at home. So, erm, anyway, he 00:03:00wasn't on a minute. He said, I just heard him say, oh, it's on its way. So I said, do you real-, that was 39 pence wasted.

VB: Mhm.

AW: So I said, that's it now, you've finished. So, I don't think he likes it.

VB: It sounds a bit of an inconvenience.

AW: You've got to draw the line somewhere. They've taken advantage of me, you know. And I thought after, 'cause I'm in on a Thursday, I only go out Wednesday, Friday and Sunday. I won't be going out tonight.

VB: Yeh.

AW: I have an hour's bingo, you know, at one of the clubs. So, erm, you know, so, yeh, just I was in Thursday. So, in Thursday night. So I said, I said, no, I said, that's it. So I said, it's not a taxi service. And I thought to myself, well, she must've phoned from a public phone box. And it didn't dawn on me till afterwards.

VB: Yeh.

AW: So I thought, Oh, you cheeky devil!

VB: Aw dear.

AW: Anyway, that's it now. Right, carry on.

VB: Right. Well one of the things. I brought along a couple of books that erm, that we have that I thought you might be interested to have a look at. One of them is sort of from 1938, some of the stars--

AW: Oh, 1938.

VB: Erm, and I'm sure there are some of the folk we were talking about last time in that.

AW: Oh? Oh, these are old books.

VB: Yep.

AW: Ten pound! [laughs]

VB: I bet they'd be a bit more expensive now [laughs] than they were then!

AW: [Beginning inaudible] [Senores?], Marlene Dietrich. I was just thinking when you was here before, I could have gone further back than that. I remember going, I don't know whether I'd just left school or whether, I went into. We were on the, like on the board of Salford, and we went over a bridge into Salford and I 00:05:00remember going to the cinema there.

VB: Mhm.

AW: To see, erm, Sunny Side Up. Oh, there's my fella. Erm, with erm, Charles Farrell and Janet Gaynor. They made films together like Jeanette MacDonald and Nelson Eddy. Then I saw, I remember seeing another one called erm [pause; 3 seconds] 'U Boat' something and I cried my eyes out. And that must've been, what, well I left school, what, infancy three so, 37 years. Oh, I used to fall for it. Spencer Tracy, oh aye! Paul Muni. I've seen all these, [next film?], Night Must Fall, seen all these. 'Course as I say that was all there was. Oh no, I don't remember seeing 'At the Edge of the Wood'. I don't know them. Paulette 00:06:00Goddard, Charlie Chaplin, Johnny Mack Brown? No, I don't remember him. David Niven, yeah. Ooh! Robert Taylor.

VB: [laughs]

AW: He made some gorgeous films. Secret Interlude, Magnificent Obsession, oooh! He was a lovely-looking bloke. A Yank at Oxford, saw that. Yeah, I saw all, most of these. [flicking through pages of book]

VB: Was Robert Taylor one of your favourites?

AW: Pardon?

VB: Was Robert Taylor one of your favourites?

AW: Oh, aye, oh yes, one of them. But I did really erm Clark Gable and the others but, ooh Sonia [surname?]. Erm, but the one I really remember was George Raft because I would have loved to have danced with him.

VB: Ah.

AW: 'Course in those days you were dead romantic, you know. Most of it's dead 00:07:00these days.

VB: So was it his style that attracted you, when you say you'd like to have gone dancing with him?

AW: Mhmm. Oh, aye, 'course I've always been romantic, me, so, you know, reading books like they come on a white horse and carry you away, I mean when I look back on things I must've been dead daft, you know.

VB: [laughs]

AW: [laughs] But eh, ooh I don't know these. [flicking through book]

VB: Was it the men stars that you were more interested in, do you think?

AW: You what?

VB: Was it the men that you--?

AW: Oh, yes, it was the men. Oh, yes. I've always liked men. I was never one for the women. I saw, the, Vivien Leigh, outside the erm, Midland Hotel.

VB: Oh.

AW: 'Cause I worked there for a while. And I saw her and I saw, ooh, what's her name? [pause; 2 seconds]. I probably, Margaret Lockwood.

VB: Uhuh.

AW: I saw erm, Jack Buchanan, and I saw erm, ooh, he was in The Desert Song. [pause; 3 seconds] Ooh, a lovely-looking bloke, he were. He's probably in here [flicking through pages] anyway. Eh, ooh, what was the name? [pause; 5 seconds]

VB: Did they have--?

AW: Ooh, it was really. I know he was in The Desert Song, but ooh, Errol Flynn! I was mad on him as well. Leslie Banks, saw him, outside.

VB: Were there crowds of people outside waiting for them?

AW: Well they used to, they had the cars waiting for them if they were at the Opera House or the Palace. Well we used to sit in St Peter's Square when it was nice--

VB: Uhuh.

AW: So we could see. We'd have our sandwiches and that outside, you know. Ooh, 00:09:00he was gorgeous! And d'you know his daughter's not a bit like him.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Oh, I was. She was on here a while ago in erm, some programme, and I couldn't believe it was his daughter. Seeing, such a good-looking father, you know.

VB: Uhuh.

AW: Oooh. All the rest are young. She was with Robert Taylor in erm, Magnificent Obsession.

VB: Did you like her?

AW: Yeh, she was lovely. They were all nice really. Ooh, Leslie Howard. He was in em, with Ingrid Bergman in em, [pause; 3 seconds], Interrmezzo. Ray Milland, mhmm. They all seemed to be handsome men in those days. Deanna Durbin, saw all 00:10:00her films as well. Mind you, they say there was nothing else to do really in those-- ooh, Gary Cooper.

VB: She didn't make that many films, Deanna Durbin, did she? She had quite a short career.

AW: Yes, she did. But she had a lovely voice. Beautiful voice. Yeah, she seemed to fade out. Judy Garland, mhmm.

VB: It sounds really exciting, though, when you were saying that a minute ago about watching the stars.

AW: Oh, Bette Davis.

VB: Yep.

AW: Did you see her at the end of her life?

VB: Yes, I have seen her.

AW: She had a stroke and oh, she was horrible! You wouldn't believe it. She made some marvellous films. She, oh I saw The Old Maid, erm, the one with Paul Henreid, Now, Voyager. I mean she made a lot of films.

VB: Mhm. Did you like her films?

AW: Yes. I liked them, I can't think of anything that I didn't. Ooh, I don't 00:11:00like, I don't know any of them. [looking through book] I don't remember many of them. [pause; 6 seconds] Marlene Dietrich. Ooh, I saw her, what, ooh, [three?] years ago when I think it was The Blue Angel and it was years ago. [flicking through book] Erm, ooh, what was his name? [pause; 4 seconds] I can't think of his name now. Herbert Marshall. And erm, it's on the tip of my tongue, can't remember it now. [pause; 7 seconds] [Garbo?] with Robert Taylor. No, they were 00:12:00gorgeous films. Oh, Jeanette MacDonald in Firefly [laughs] with Nelson Eddy. My son was here the other day and we were, and I remember taking him to a cinema near where we lived, he was only about eighten months old, to see Rose-Marie and d'you know, he's never forgotten it. I honestly thought that he wouldn't sit still because he was a child, he was never in-, he was always. And he was as good as gold! And d'you know, he's never forgotten it.

VB: That's amazing.

AW: I don't remember her.

VB: 'Cause I remember you saying that you liked Jeanette MacDonald and--

AW: Oh, yes I do, yeh. I didn't know he had very bad eyesight. I read it somewhere that he had very bad, ooh, Joan Bennett. Mhmm. 1938. Oh I was courting then. Virginia Gray. I only remember her slightly. [Next name?]. Yes I remember 00:13:00him as well. Carole Lombard, she was married to Clark Gable, wasn't she.

VB: Aw.

AW: She died. She was pretty young as well. Oh, I think she died in a [pause; 2 seconds] air crash. And they reckon he never got over it. Ohh, I liked him as well.

VB: Spencer Tracy.

AW: Spencer Trace. He made some lovely films as well. Boys' Town, with erm, what's that other Irishman? Pat O'Brien. He made lots of films with him.

VB: Oh, yes.

AW: Erm, and erm, James Cagney.

VB: Yes, Pat O'Brien.

AW: Jean [surname?] I remember her.

VB: Pat O'Brien made quite a few with Cagney as well, didn't he?

AW: Uhuh. Mr Deeds Goes to Town. Saw that.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Luise Rainer. Mhmm. See some of those really didn't sort of make it to the top.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Oh, Adolphe Menjou. Yeah, I remember him. But some of them just. Anna May Wong, yeah. But some of these, sort of, didn't make, you know, didn't make, ooh, Dorothy Lamour. With erm, Bob Hope and Bing Crosby. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

AW: Gene Raymond. Oh, aye, he was nice as well.

VB: Aw. He's very handsome, isn't he.

AW: Oh, he married Jeanette MacDonald, I didn't know that.

VB: Did he?

AW: Says here.

VB: Oh.

AW: When she became Mrs Raymond. [reading book] The bridegroom remains ne of radio. Ooh, he was a radio star as well.

VB: Mhmm.

AW: Virginia Bruce. [pause; 8 seconds] Ooh, Vivien Leigh. I saw her outside the Midland.

VB: What was it like seeing someone like that.

AW: Oh, I was thrilled to bits! You see them in the, the flesh, you know, and 00:15:00she was-- no it was Margaret Lockwood. I saw her as well, but Margaret Lockwood had eh, she was stood on the steps, you see, 'cause they had a showpiece you'd to lead them into the car. A porch, I should say. And, eh, Margaret Lockwood just had a headscarf on, and it was so, and Jack Buchanan was getting ready to go to the Opera House, and eh, he had his top hat on and his gloves and. Oh, I was thrilled to bits.

VB: Aww.

AW: Ooh, Fredric March.

VB: Sounds like seeing them--

AW: I remember him in Smilin' Through. Myrna Loy, yeah, she made quite a few as well. William Powell in The Thin Man. He made the Thin Man series.

VB: Was that the ones with the little dog in it, that they had?

AW: Yeh. Yeh, they always had a little dog. I can't remember the name. [pause; 6 00:16:00seconds; looking through book] Myrna Loy. Paul Muni. 'Emile Zola' [referring to The Life of Emile Zola]. Saw that, mhm. [pause; 5 seconds] Isn't it marvellous what makeup can do?

VB: That's amazing, yes.

AW: Annabella. Ooh, I don't remember her. Wings of the Morning, Rochelle Hudson. Some of them I don't remember. Ooh, Don Ameche. Katharine Hepburn. She made some good films and all. She had an affair, you know, with Spencer Tracy for years.

VB: Really?

AW: Yeah. But neither of the, he had an invalid wife, and he would never leave. Apart from being Catholics as well, well he was Catholic, I don't know about her. Oh, years, right up to eh, she talked about it, she was being interviewed 00:17:00on the television and eh, they brought it up like, and she said like, that they were very much in love and ooh, for years it went on. But they never married, but erm, ooh, I thought. I couldn't stand him.

VB: Who, George Formby?

AW: Aw, I couldn't stand him, no.

VB: What was it about him that put you off?

AW: Ooh, I don't know. It was [mimics Formby's voice, inaudible] It put me off.

VB: [laughs]

AW: No, I liked manly men, me. Ooh, John Barrymore. Reginald Denny, yes, remember him. Virginia Wade. No I don't remember, Robert Montgomery, Frank Morgan, [rest inaudible]. Simone Simon. I suppose I must have seen him in something. Seventh Heaven, yeah. Picture which made Janet Gaynor. Andrea [Lee?], 00:18:00The Goldwyn Follies. [Next name?]. Carole Lombard, five foot four, seven stone nine pound. Claudette Colbert. It Happened One Night, with eh, Clark Gable. Funny some films stick in your mind and others you only vaguely remember.

VB: Yeh. 'Cause that's the one I think you were telling me about that the last time, the one where they have sheet and separating-- [laughs]

AW: That's right, yeh. Oh, yes, it was funny. Mind you, the films, I don't think there was any really, bad films. You know, what you could say, you know. June Lang, don't remember er. James Cagney. Oh, he made lots of films.

VB: Yeh. Were you a fan of Cagney's?

AW: Oh, yes. liked the, Errol Flynn swashbuckling. Fred Astaire. I used to love 00:19:00to watch him dance. Ooh, i thought, I wish I could dance like that, you know. Mr and Mrs Gary Cooper. [Lee F?], I remember him. [Somebody? Junior?], Mr and Mrs Fred Astaire. Phyllis Potter, I remember her. Fred MacMurray, Ray Milland, [next word inaudible]. No, I don't remember him. Probably have seen him but he mustn't have made an impact, you know what I mean?

VB: Yeh.

AW: Oh, look at that. Claudette [surname?]. Ooh, Randolph Scott. [flicks though pages] Did you get these out of the library?

VB: No. I picked these up in a secondhand bookshop, so.

AW: Ohh! How nice.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Pretty old, aren't they.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Lovely.

VB: I liked that bit with the stars and the fashions of the stars. Beautiful dressed.

AW: Aw, yeh, they werhe lovely, weren't they? Mm. Mind, they're trying to bring them back, aren't they?

VB: Yeh.

AW: A lot of them, Ann Todd, yes I remember her. What was she in? That was a weepie as well. I could weep at any of them. Valerie Hobson. That was her that married Profumo. You know.

VB: Oh, right.

AW: Yes, yes. She was married to Profumo and what was the name?

VB: Erm, Christine Keeler?

AW: Christine Keeler. And they had went abroad, didn't they? Joan Fontaine, she's the sister of erm, Olivia de Havilland, isn't she.

VB: Mhm.

AW: She made some nice films as well. Louise [Surname?].

VB: I remember seeing somewhere that Joan Fontaine and Olivia de Havilland weren't the best of friends.

AW: No, no. They said they, they didn't get on, did they?

VB: Yeh. 'Cause they were quite alike, aren't they?

AW: Ooh. Barbara Stanwyck. She made some gorgeous films as well. [pause; 12 seconds; flicking through pages of book] Ooh, you're taking me right back, you know. I feel like Methuselah.

VB: [laughs]

AW: Ooh! Charles Boyer as well! Gigi. [flicks through pages] They were all nice, all good-looking men, weren't they?

VB: Yeh.

AW: There were some good-looking women as well. 'Marco Polo' [referring to The Adventures of Marco Polo]. I remember seeing that. Sigrid Gurie. Dennis O'Keefe, oh, I remember him. [Next name?] [flicks through pages; 10 seconds] Ooh, Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs. [laughs]

VB: 'Cause that was one of the first colour ones, I think, wasn't it? Snow White.

AW: Mhmm. Claudette Colbert and Charles Boyer. He was a marvellous actor as 00:22:00well. Basil Rathbone.

VB: Mhm. Oh, yes.

AW: I used to think he was dead, you know, that's ooh, you know. I didn't realise he was only acting.

VB: Uhuh.

AW: Ooh, Joan Crawford. She made some, ooh, I believe she was the devil to her daughter. Her daughter wrote a book about her, didn't she.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Oh, Tyrone Power. I liked him as well. Alice Faye. My brother was mad on her. The brother next to me was mad over her. He used to go mad over Alice Faye, don't know why. But he did. [Don Amitri?] Rebecca of Sunnybrook Farm. Shirley Temple.

VB: Shirley Temple.

AW: She was a, she turned out to be a politician, didn't she?

VB: Mhm.

AW: Gloria Stewart. I don't remember er. [mumbling, inaudible] I've probably seen all these. Jessie Matthews.

VB: Did you like Jessie Matthews?

AW: She lived to a good age, didn't she? She finished up in the erm, was it 'The Archers'?

VB: Really?

AW: Yes. She finished up in 'The Archers', I think, yeh. One of those, anyway.

VB: One of these, yeh.

AW: The Buccaneer. Oh, I used to like them swashbuckling. Fredric March.

VB: I was thinking when you said Basil Rathbone, I was thinking of him and Errol Flynn in erm, The Adventures of Robin Hood. Wonderful. [laughs]

AW: Oh, yeh. loved the swashbuckling ones. Specially with erm, Errol Flynn.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Maurice Chevalier, yeh, and Jack Buchanan. Who else did I see outside the 00:24:00Midland? Saw quite a few 'cause they used to stay there, you see, with them being near the Opera House and the eh-- Jill Burnett. Henry Fonda.

VB: Where abouts is that, the Midland? Is it just beside St Peter's Square?

AW: It's right in, it's right in the middle of the bottom of Oxford Street.

VB: Right.

AW: Well, it's called something else now. They changed the name.

VB: Yeh, yeh.

AW: And then, on the opposite side is the Central Library. That's St Peter's Square, where the Cenotaph is.

VB: Right, I'm with you. Yeh.

AW: Well, we could see, you see. We used to sit in Peter's Square to eat our sandw- when it was warm. 'Cause a man used to come and sit with me every day, I didn't know him from Adam, you know, for a chat. And I could, I used to keep my eye on the steps, you see. Specially when I saw these posh cars, you know, and I... Ooh, I was thrilled to bits when I used to see them, you know. [Somebody Garrick?] Oh, he was funny. Edward Everett Horton. Oh, Brian Aherne. The Great 00:25:00Garrick. Don't remember seeing that. Probably did, though. There wasn't many I didn't see. All these 'Follies', they made loads of them, The Ziegfeld Follies, The Goldwyn Follies. Ella Logan. [? Clark], [Serena?] Probably names that didn't stick, I was just interested.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Oh, here he is. Here he is. Ooh, dear, excuse me.

VB: He's always got a smile on his face, hasn't he?

AW: I mean, he was cheeky. I liked him cos he was cheeky, you know. He was, something about him.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Robin Hood. And he suited those roles.

VB: Oh, yes.

AW: He was sort of made for that. Patric Knowles, Olivia de Havilland's Maid Marian.

VB: I remember in that scene where he sort of throws a table and there's all these people coming at him and-- [laughs]

AW: [laughs] I used to sit it were mad that, you know. [mumbling] One Hundred Men and a Girl. Yeh. [Rose?], Eleanor Powell and Nelson Eddy. Gracie Fields.

VB: Did you like Gracie Fields?

AW: Yes, but I didn't like when she sang going up the scale, it put me off. I know it put a lot of people off. Ooooooooo, [singing off key] you know. Eh, Gertrude Michael. Don't remember her. John Clement, yeh. Don't remember Barbara Blair. Otto Kruger I do. Star of the Circus. Don't remember that. A Damsel in Distress. Remember that.

VB: Who was in that one?

AW: Erm.

VB: Oh, Fred Astaire, yeh.

AW: Without Ginger Rogers, yeh. Joan Fontaine. Ooh, she doesn't look like Joan Fontaine there. Gracie Allen and, on no, it's Gracie Allen and George Burns.

VB: Aw, right.

AW: They were man and wife, weren't they? [pause; 6 seconds] [Name of film?] I saw that. Ginger Rogers. Douglas Fairbanks Junior.

VB: I was--

AW: He's still going, isn't he? He must be, he must be well in his eighties!

VB: Yeh.

AW: The Prisoner of Zenda. Ooh, I used to go all, whatsit? Ooh, Dick Powell.

VB: Yeh. Was Ronald Colman in The Prisoner of Zenda?

AW: Mm?

VB: Was Ronald Colman in The Prisoner of Zenda?

AW: Erm. It doesn't say so.

VB: Probably not.

AW: It just said that Douglas Fairbanks Junior--

VB: Yeh.

AW: Who had just distinguished himself in The Prisoner of Zenda was given the 00:28:00hero's role. But he probably played it, he might have played it in the old, you know, the old--

VB: Yeh.

AW: The old eh, Frances Langford, oh I remember her. Over The Moon. Oh, [don't?] remember that one. Merle Oberon. [Next name inaudible?] Oh, she was an old actress, she was a silent actress, er. Peter [surname?]. I don't remember him. Kay Francis. I remember her. [inaudible] Charles Laughton. Saw that. Elsa Lanchester, she was his wife, wasn't she?

VB: Mhm.

AW: Oh, I don't know what she seen in him. Ooooh.

VB: [laughs]

AW: Kay Francis. I remember her. [flicks through pages] Warner Baxter. Forgot about him. 'Ten Points An Actress Must Know'. 'Miss Davis at Twenty-nine'. An extra seven years. Twenty thousand years since then. The performance Of Human 00:29:00Bondage in 1934. I'd be what, fifteen then. I probably saw that. Then she was in Jezebel.

VB: Mm. Was that the one with the red dress?

AW: Ooh. Just shows you what. You go rummaging among books and what you find. Bette Davis, George Brent. He was eh, 'cause somebody said to me once, "You know,2 they said, "I've noticed that all the men that you like, they've all got moustaches." [laughs] I don't know what it is but they've always fascinated me, even as a child. That anybody in our street had a moustache, whether it was bushy or, and I don't, I don't know what it is, it's just something. If it suits them of course, but. One of my mates said, "You know," he said, "It's just dawned on me. All the men that you, you go for have all got moustaches." [laughs]

VB: Right enough, though, when you see Errol Flynn and Clark Gable, yes.

AW: Ooh, yes! [laughs] Well when I saw him without, it put me off. You know he was in a part where he had no, you know, it put me off. He didn't look the same somehow. Ooh, A Yank at Oxford, I saw that.

VB: Right.

AW: Jane Withers. Ooh, yeh, she was a child star as well. She didn't--

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

AW: There Goes the Groom. Burgess Meredith. Oh, aye, he made some good films as well. Ann Southern, yeh. Constance Bennett, oh yeh. Brian Aherne, Tom Brown, Bonita Granville, yeh, I remember er. See some of them, as I say, you only perhaps saw them in a couple of films, you know. Mind, they can't all get to the 00:31:00top can they?

VB: Yes. There's another man [laughs] with a moustache!

AW: Ronald Colman. Yeh.

VB: [laughs] He reminds me a bit of Errol Flynn, he's got that same you know, cheekiness.

AW: Oh. He's got, yeh, and he was cheeky with it. I think that's what attracted me to him as well. [Name of film?] Ooh, Alistair Sim. [Name of film?] Ooh, I don't remember that. Margaretta Scott. Young and Innocent. [Name of film star?] She didn't really make it. She was only in a couple of films. Oh, A Star is Born. Mhm. Fredric March was in the first one. I remember seeing that, and I remember it was erm, Judy Garland and James Mason in the remake. But I don't know they think they're ever the same when they remake them, the, you know. 'Cause I was saying to my son, I said, I wish they'd bring them back. He said 00:32:00they can't because the films then were made in, was it nitrate or something?

VB: A remember you saying that. Yeh.

AW: Yeh. I said, Ooh, I said. I was telling him about Maytime when I sat in here I had a weep. Took me right back. Irene Dunne, Broom she made some films with erm, Robert Taylor.

VB: Was Maytime on quite recently?

AW: Mhm?

VB: When you say. Was Maytime on quite recently or, has it been on?

AW: Yes. I think the last time you was here.

VB: That's right, yeh.

AW: I just happened to notice and I thought. And I think I was going to go, go out to the shops and I thought, Ooh! I must watch this.

VB: Yeh. I just wondered when you said that--

AW: An it took right back to erm,I think the Imperial Cinema in erm, Trafford [Bowes?], it was then. And I thought, and I sat and watched it and I thought, Ooh! You know. And it starts while she's an old woman, you know, an old lady. 00:33:00And eh, eh, I don't know, it was a niece or somebody was going to marry this man. And she, she couldn't make her mind up because of some, don't know whether it was his family or somebody, I can't remember. And she said, and of course they flashed back and it showed you the story. And it finishes up where she erm, he comes to her at the end, you know.

VB: Mhmm.

AW: They sing that song. [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

AW: Our Vince he said, oh, he said, you never change, do you. I said, well you didn't live then, Isaid. It was a very romantic age.

VB: Mhm. No, I just, I remember you telling me about it before. I just wondered if I'd missed it again. [laughs]

AW: Yeh. Anna Neagle and Herbert Wilcox So, aye, she married him, didn't she? Ginger Rogers. The Rat. Oh, Anton Walbrook. He was in erm, 'Ill Met By Moonlight' possibly referring to Dangerous Moonlight]. I don't remember that 00:34:00one. Oh, I couldn't stand him.

VB: Who's that?

AW: Tom Walls.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier. Fire Over England. Saw that. [pause; 3 seconds] Leslie Banks in The Body [rest inaudible]. [flicks though pages] Oh! There's another one! Cesar Romero. Wooo!

VB: [Another?] moustache.

AW: Sonia [Surname?] Most of them had a moustache.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Don Amici. Sonja Henie. There she is, yeh. She didn't really. She couldn't really act. She was more of a skating, well she was a skating star. Robert Montgomery. Greta Garbo and Charles Boyer. [Next name inaudible]. She was a lovely actress as well. 'Emile Zola' [referring to The Life of Emile Zola]. Paul 00:35:00Muni. Sylvia Sidney. Yeh, she made quite a few films as well. I had a cousin, she was the living image of Sylvia Sidney. Everybody used to say it. She was just like same mouth, same eyes, and everything.

VB: She's a lovely woman.

AW: [Angel?] Mhm. 'Wonder Child', Deanna Durbin. [pause; 4 seconds] Melvyn Douglas. That's who I was trying to think of. One Hundred Men and a Girl. Saw that one as well. Heidi. Saw that one.

VB: Aw.

AW: Jack Hulbert. I saw him as well. Erm, outside, coming down the Midland--

VB: Mhm.

AW: When he was at the Opera House, yeh. I was trying to think who that star who was a teen, well the times of the teenyboppers. And there was all these 00:36:00teenagers waiting outside, to see him, get his autograph, and they took him out the back way.

VB: Aw.

AW: I can't remember who it was. I didn't really, I wasn't into that sort of thing anyway. Eddie Cantor.

VB: Did the stars ever talk to people when they came out?

AW: Oh, no, no. Don't think they was-- ooh, The Prisoner of Zenda. Madeleine Carroll. Ooh, he did a bit of swashbuckling as well. Biographies of two hundred leading screen personalities brought up to date. 1338. Born in 1929. [flicking through pages] Ooh, it's got all the whatsits, where they were born and everything. Mhm. Ooh, it's lovely that. Ooh, Leslie Howard. Lovely that.

VB: [laughs]

AW: Shows what you know when you go looking at-- I must go and have a look at some--

VB: Right.

AW: Bookshops.

VB: I liked that one as well.

AW: It is. It's lovely that. It's worth keeping, that.

VB: I've got another one as well, if you want a quick look.

AW: Oh, go on, then.

VB: Yeh. [laughs]

AW: Might as well.

VB: I think it's probably got a lot of the same things that this one has, 'cause it's about the same thing.

AW: 1935. Oh dear. I only remember him as a director.

VB: Ernst Lubitsch, yeh.

AW: Ernst Lubitsch.

VB: He made quite a lot of comedies, didn't he?

AW: Mhmm, yeh.

VB: Light comedies.

AW: Maurice Chevalier. Jeanette MacDonald. [flicks through pages] Charlie Ruggles. He used to play the comic part.

VB: Mhmm.

AW: Claudette Colbert. [flicks through pages] Kay Francis. Herbert Marshall. He 00:38:00had an artificial leg in, you know. Lost it in the war, lost it in the First World War, I think. Gary Cooper. [Georges?] Top Hat and [rest inaudible], all them. Anna Sten. Don't remember her. Joan Gardner. Don't remember her either.

VB: No.

AW: [flicking through pages] Don't remember her. Matheson Lang.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Matheson Lang? That rings a bell. When I was a child there was a White Heather Fund for poor children and we used to go to Heaton Park. I went, you 00:39:00know. And I wonder if it's the same one. 'Cause this man started this and he was a Scot and I'm sure is name was Matheson Lang. Unless, I mean, it could have been another one but he, he started this White Heather Fund for poor children.

VB: That's interesting.

AW: 'Cause I went once and then there was another one. I never went on that. I think it was Blackpool. But I never went on that one but I'd probably left school by then.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Jean Muir.

VB: It sounds quite likely, 'cause if he was a film star with a bit of money to spend on something worthwhile.

AW: Yeh. Madeleine Carroll with [Robert] Donat. [Something?] on the Western Fronts. Clive Brook, oh, aye, Clive Brook, Diana [Surname?],Charles Laughton. He 00:40:00was a marvellous actor, him.

VB: Was that The Private Life of Henry VIII that he was in? Was he in the--

AW: He was in The Grapes of Wrath.

VB: Ah!

AW: Mhmm. And he was in Mutiny on the Bounty. Mhm. Leslie Howard. The Scarlet Pimpernel, ooh, aye. Like that. [flicks through pages] Gary Cooper and Kathleen Burke. Oh, I saw that 'Lads of Bengal' [referring to The Lives of a Bengal Lancer], they were all films after I'd left school. So I must have seen them all. That's all there was.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Claude Rains. Yes he was a good actor as well. Margo, mhmm. I remember her as well. Charlie Chaplin.

VB: It's not what you usually think of him as looking like.

AW: Well I could laugh at him. I mean when we were children he was funny, but 00:41:00when I've seen him since there's no way I could laugh at him now.

VB: No.

AW: It's funny how you change when you're kids you think, "Yeh, yeh." [laughs] Rene Clair.

VB: Do you think your tastes changed from when you were, you know, a small child to when you were a teenager? Did you prefer the funny ones when you were younger?

AW: Oh, yes, yeh. Well, when they've shown them a few years ago. You know, the Keystone Cops and all that. My son was howling laughing. And I just couldn't laugh. And I said to him, "Ooh," I said. "Ooh, we thought they were dead funny." You know, when they go and miss the train and they put them on the railway line. He was, he was, and he said, "Mum," he said, "What's the matter with you?" I said, "Well, I laughed at these," I said, "When I was a child," I said, "But I don't think they're funny now," I said. [laughs] He thought they were dead funny. Ah. Oh, The Ghost Goes West. I saw that as well.

VB: Oh, yeh.

AW: Jack Buchanan. Yeh.

VB: Oh, he was good in that when he was the two, the ghost and the modern one.

AW: Yeh. It was a good film that. Yeh. Robert Donat, [Gene?] Powell. Gene Powell played the principal roles. [flicks through book] Complete reconstruction of the castle as well, built at Denham Studios. Good heavens! Madeleine Carroll. She was nice.

VB: Yeh, she's lovely.

AW: [Robertson?]

VB: Was she in the--? Was Madeleine Carroll--

AW: Oooh, John Mills. He was in that as well. When he was in, we went to see him in Ryan's Daughter at the old, what was it called? In Deansgate. The Deansgate Cinema, with another woman, and I thought I was waiting, it was packed, it was in the afternoon. I went with a woman that I worked with at Bagley Hospital. And 00:43:00I'm waiting for John Mills to come on. And I thought, "That's funny. John Mills is in this." So I said to Ann, I said, "I thought John Mills was in this." She said, "That's him." she said, "The idiot." And I couldn't believe it. 'Cause he is a good-looking man, you know, even now, and he's in his eighties. said, 'It isn't, is it?' [laughing] And then when she falls for this soldier, Christopher, Oh, I think I've seen him since--

VB: Mhm.

AW: An he was shellshocked and she's in this, eh, I don't know whether it was a pool or something. Of course she jumps up and shouts [inaudible]. "Oooh!" And it was dead quiet. [laughing] "Oooh!" {?} anybody looked round. "Ooh, I'm sorry if 00:44:00I didn't. I got carried away." [laughs] It was so funny, oh dear. Ooh, Richard Dix. I remember him as well. [flicks though pages] No, I don't remember him. Probably seen him but. Oh that was, oh Walt Disney. Oh dear.

VB: Did you like the cartoons?

AW: Oh, yes, I liked the cartoons. There used to be the Tatler on Oxford Road. Where Oxford Road Station is. They, they only showed cartoons. Eh, like for an hour. You could go in, you know, continuous. And that sort of, you know, Batman and erm, Flash Gordon. I used to nip in there now and again.

VB: Oh.

AW: And you used to see all the fellas asleep. They must have gone in for a 00:45:00sleep. Anna Karenina. It was a lovely film, that. Grace Moore, Leo Carillo, oh I remember him. Don't remember Robert Allen. Fredric March, Garbo. Jessie Matthews, Clairvoyants. I don't remember that. Fay Wray, ooh, she was in King Kong, wasn't she? Jack Hulbert. Esther [surname?], Luise Rainer. [flicks through pages; 9 seconds] Funny how some-- [pause; 3 seconds] Ooh eh. It's not Harry Wilcoxon, it was Henry Wilcoxon. He was, he's a marvellous actor as well. And Alan Hale. Bertie Young. Ian Keith. [Something? the Crusaders]. Bertie Young. 00:46:00Mhmm. Mutiny on the Bounty. Charles Laughton, Clark Gable, Franchot, oh! Franchot Tone. He made a few films. What was he in? I think it was a weepie, anyway. I can't remember the, the eh. Oh, he was the devil and all, Victor McLaglen, he was always fighting. [laughs] I think he was in Ryan's Daughter. I think he was Sarah Mills, I don't know whether it was her father or her brother he had a fight with them. Who was in that? Ooh. Not Kirk Douglas, the other one. Was it Kirk Douglas? Smashing film that. [flicks through pages]. Couldn't stand 00:47:00them, too.

VB: Who's that?

AW: Ralph Lynn and Tom Walls. I didn't think they were a bit funny. Well they didn't make me laugh.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Roberta. Mind you I can't laugh at anything, it's got to be really funny.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Oh, Becky Sharp. I remember seeing that, 1935. I was what, sixteen or some. But all in my era.

VB: Yeh. [laughs]

AW: Norma Shearer. Grace Moore. Ooh, she had a lovely voice, er. Ooh, [Evelyn Lee?]. I think she die, Ooh! That was another one. Ramon Novarro. Ooh, Benita [Young?]. Greta Nissen. I don't remember much about these. Madeleine Carroll, Lillian Harvey. Oh, Thelma Todd, I remember her. Ronnie [Surname?], Judy Kelly.

VB: Was Madeleine Carroll in The 39 Steps?

AW: Yes, I think she was. The old one. That's been remade, hasn't it?

VB: Yeh.

AW: Mhm. Look at what they used to wear. They're bringing all these fashions back. Mhm. Joan Crawford.

VB: Lovely. Really lovely dresses, I mean.

AW: I liked some of the lines. I liked, ooh, Douglas Fairbanks Junior, and he's grown old lovely, he as. Gertrude Lawrence. That was her that was supposed to have slept with, had a bath with Noel Coward.

VB: Oh.

AW: [laughs] Oh, I used to laugh at these two. Can't laugh at them now. You must lose your sense of humour when you're not a child any more. Oh, Jackie Cooper. 00:49:00Jane Withers. Freddie Bartholomew. I remember him as. I remember The Dead End Kids.

VB: Oh.

AW: One or two made it. But the others didn't. Carole Lombard. Ohhh, George Raft. Scarface and the Bolero and the Rumba.

VB: It's a lovely shot of him too. Moody photograph.

AW: Oh, he was gorgeous! George Arliss. Conrad Veidt. He was a good actor as well. Jessie Matthews. Anna May Wong in Chu Chin Chow. I saw that on the stage as well at the Opera House. Jane [Carnell?]. Don't remember her. Irene Dunne.

VB: Did you go to the--

AW: [beginning inaudible] Lovely she is there with that.

VB: Aw, yes.

AW: How they can change! It must be marvellous. I'd love to be eh, changed. I did it once years ago. Where was it, Bellevue, I think. There were a few of us and it was a makeup session. And eh, I said, "Go on," I said, "Go and have a go." They said, "No. You're the nicest looking one amongst us." I said, "Go away! I'm not nice looking. I've never thought myself as nice looking," I said. Anyway they finally pushed me into it and I couldn't believe it was me. I didn't want to wash my face. And yet it was only whatsit makeup? Very fine, you know, and she, well I used to have my eyebrows shaved anyways and I used to go and have my hair done years ago. I used to have them shaped at the same time. And 00:51:00she said, "There you are," she said, "Have a look at yourself." And I couldn't believe it. "Ooh," I said. They said, "There you are. We told you you'd be all right." You know. "Yes," I said, "But I don't want to wash my face now."

VB: [laughs]

AW: [laughs] Katharine Hepburn. Yeh, they were all nice-looking women, weren't they?

VB: Yeh.

AW: Jack Buchanan. Anna Neagle. Ginger Rogers. Fred Astaire.

VB: As you say, though, I'm sure the makeup helps a lot.

AW: Mhm. Yeh, it does. Oh Modern Times. I saw Charlie Chaplin in that.. And erm, he was in another one, wasn't he? Was it The Great Dictator? Or 'The Dictator' or something, something like that. Oh, Wallace Beery! He was a good, he was a marvellous actor as well. Tugboat Annie. Saw that. China Seas. Can't remember [rest inaudible]. Oh, Marie Dressler. Died in 1934. Mhm. I remember her. [flicks 00:52:00through pages] George Arliss. Conrad Veidt. He was German once. He made his name over here. Peg of Old Drury Tch. Cedric Hardwicke. Jack Hawkins. Anna [Neave?]. Margaretta Scott. She made, she was very good as well, she was a good actress. [coughs] 'Scuse me.

VB: My. It's a terrible throat that.

AW: Mhm. China Seas. Oh, Lewis Stone! I remember him as well. Jean Harlow. She was only twenty-three when she died, wasn't she? Yeh, she was only twenty-three. 00:53:00William Powell. Luise Rayner. Cicely Courtneidge. She was Jack Hulbert's wife, wasn't she? Yeh. Tom Walls. I didn't think they were funny. Julie Haydon. Don't remember her. First talkie The Scoundrel. What one was the first talkie? Oh, I don't know. Merle Oberon. She made some nice films as well. Ann Boleyn, The Private Life of Henry VIII. Must have seen them. [flicks through pages] Janet Gaynor. Mhm. Seventh Heaven. Lorna Baxter. [looking at book; pause; 18 seconds] 00:54:00[Name?]. He couldn't really act. He was just, he was just. He was good in the film. Peter Lorre. [inaudible] I remember him. He was more for the stage, though. Guy Kibbee, Paul Muni.

VB: Did you--

AW: Oh, I remember the first film we went to see him in. Erm, at the Globe, in, [pause; 3 seconds] where was it? Old Trafford, I think it was. And it was The Mummy. Well there were benches then, you know, not seats. I don't know whether I'd left school. Probably I'd left school. Anyway, I went to see him. I was sat there, dead quiet. And when they opened the lid and it shows him like, you know, and he moves his hand. Well I let out one [laughing]. I slid along the seat. I 00:55:00was frightened to death! It wouldn't frighten me now, but. Oh dear. Olivia de Havilland.

VB: Were you frightened afterwards coming out of the cinema?

AW: [laughing] I always put my foot in it when it's quiet. Oh, James Cag-, Oh Jeremy Brown, I remember him. Hugh Herbert. [flicks through pages] Ooh, Victor McLaglen. He made, he was always fighting when he was-- Spencer Tracy. Claire Trevor, I remember her. Oh, Cary Grant. he's another one. He was a good-looking bloke and all. Douglas Fairbanks Junior. Elissa Landi. Oh, Ann Harding. Oh, yes, I remember her as well. Oooh, there he is!

VB: [beginning inaudible] Clark [Gable]. He had a lovely smile.

AW: Cheeky smile. Jean Harlow. 'Keeping Fit for Films'.

VB: Mhm.

AW: [coughs]

VB: Aw.

AW: Ooh, those penicillins are certainly clearing me out.

VB: Mhm.

AW: [coughs] [Name?]. Ooh, Adolphe Menjou. Always a polished performer, he was. Oooh, Fredric March. [pause; 4 seconds] The sheikDark Angel. 1926! Oh, no, I wouldn't have seen that. I'd only be what? Seven.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Herbert Marshall. George [surname?]. [flicks through pages] Katharine Hepburn. She was good in erm, [pause; 4 seconds] The African Queen.

VB: Mhmm, yes.

AW: [name?] Oh, yes, I remember his as well. Alice Faye. [rest inaudible.] She 00:57:00was, I think she was married to the other Hulbert, if I'm not mistaken. 'Cause there was Jack and somebody. He had a brother, I know.

VB: Mhm.

AW: A think she was married to the other one. Roberta. Mhm, saw that. [flicks though pages; 6 seconds] What made you become interested in this project? What, what--

VB: Well the same things as you actually, [laughs] I think. I just love the films mainly.

AW: Yes. Gracie Fields. Oh, Will Rogers. I can't remember when I really. It 00:58:00must've been when I left school, I think, when I really started going to the cinemas, you know. But erm, oh, The Marx Brothers. Jack Oakie. Eddie Cantor. [pause; 6 seconds] Oh, I'd better take one of my tablets. Keep my time right.

VB: Oh, right.

AW: [looking through book] Constance Cummings. I remember her. She was in one on the radio in the afternoon, but I switched it off. Ruby Keeler. 42nd Street. 00:59:00[flicks through pages] Marlene Dietrich. That was erm, John Boles.

VB: Aw, right.

AW: I couldn't think of his name. In fact I think I was going back into work, and there was a big limousine there. And he came out and I thought, "Ooh, oh! Wait till I tell the girls I've seen John Boles," you know.

VB: [laughs]

AW: I remember him in The Desert Song. I couldn't think who it was at first. That's right. John Boles. He looked just as he is there. Really, really nice-looking, you know. Pat O'Brien. Them two made films together. Heather 01:00:00Angel. I remember some of them but some of the, as I say, didn't--

VB: [sneezes]

AW: Oh, I hope I'm not passing that cold on to you. I should hate to do that with what I've gone through. Ooh, Ramon Novarro! What was he in? The Sheik [probably referring to The Sheik Steps Out]. Yeh. They were all good-looking blokes, weren't they. No wonder I was fascinated. Oh, Miriam Hopkins. She made some good, Lee Tracy. [pause; 3 seconds] I must've seen him in something. Bette Davis. She always said with a face like hers it was the only thing she could do was act. She wasn't all that bad, was she?

VB: No, not at all.

AW: I thought she was quite good-looking. Ooh, Mae West! [laughs] "Come up and 01:01:00see me sometime." Ooh, 'Broadway Melody' [possibly referring to Broadway Melody of 1938].

[End of Tape One]

[Start of Tape Two]

AW: [Looking through book]. Jean Arthur. Maureen O'Sullivan. Charles Boyer. Pat Paterson. Peter Lorre. [pause; 6 seconds] Ohh! Didn't know [Norma Surname?] is seen with her father and mother. Leslie Banks and Edna Best.

VB: Mhmm.

AW: Ooh. Oh, Charles Warner [referring to Warner Oland], was eh, [pause; 5 seconds] erm, Charlie Chan. Leslie Banks. He had something wrong, you know, with one half of his face. It was-- [pause; 4 seconds]. He looked normal from, like one side and then I don't know what happened, but there was, it was sort of pulled up. And he, he used to just show his good side, you know.

VB: Oh, I see.

AW: [Name?] [flicks through pages; 3 seconds] Don't remember him. [pause; 3 seconds]. Right, good.

VB: That's the stars. [laughs]

AW: I'll just go and take my dope.

VB: Right.

AW: D'you want another drink?

VB: That would be lovely, yes. Thanks very much.

AW: I'll have one with you.

VB: Yeh. It sounds like you need one.

AW: Aw dear.

VB: One thing I was thinking when we were talking just now about all these stars with the beautifully made up faces and everything. Did you use a lot of makeup 01:03:00yourself when you were younger? Or, when you were that sort of age?

AW: Well, really we, I wasn't allowed, we weren't allowed makeup but I used to take some to a girl's house when we were going out. 'Course I've never used a lot of makeup.

VB: No.

AW: I've only used a very-- [coughs] Never used heavy makeup, no.

VB: 'Cause I've heard people say that before that their parents didn't really approve of makeup.

AW: Well I don't think you did those days. It was very strict and erm. Mind you, there was always the odd one that did but the majority of families was-- I was about sixteen, because I still had a fringe. And I wore ankle straps, as they used to call them in those days, and socks, which today you wouldn't dream of. No, it was eh, no. But I've never been one for heavy makeup, anyway.

VB: No. I was just wondering that.

AW: No. It was a different era, as 've said to you. Everything's eh, more liberal now. More. Mean I've seen, I saw a woman on the bus not long ago painting her daughter's nails! She was only about eight. With purple nail varnish! And that's another thing I've never been into.

VB: Mhm.

AW: If I'm going anywhere special I just put pink on, you know. I've never been one for nail varnish.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Perhaps I'm old-fashioned. [laughs and coughs at same time]

VB: I don't know. [laughs]

AW: [coughs] Oh, excuse me.

VB: You were talking about having seen one or two of these stars on the stage. Has the theatre been an interest? Did you go to the theatre much when you were--?

AW: Yes, well I didn't go a lot.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But erm. A went to the Palace a few times. And eh, I went to the Opera House. But the only time, I had a friend that was in the theatre and when they came to Manchester, he used to give me a ring and of course I got a seat, a free seat. And I used to get a box of chocolates. And erm, I'm trying to think what I saw there. I saw a ballet. A Dutch ballet, I think it was. And erm, ohh, can't remember now. I saw quite a few of the, the theatre shows. I can't bring them to mind at the moment.

VB: Was that later than when you were going to the pictures? Or the same sort of time?

AW: This was, this was erm, this was during the war actually.

VB: Right.

AW: This was during the war. Erm, no, it was only the cinema before. Of course I was at home then, I told you. I was widowed and I was at home, so the cinema was the only, you know. No, this was during the war when eh, they kept the theatres open, you know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: And eh, I'm trying to think. Ooh! [pause; 3 seconds] I know they were popular, I don't know whether one was 'White Horse Inn'. But that was the only time I went, was when I got a free seat, you know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But eh, I did like the theatre but as I say, at that particular time it was either dancing or the cinema, you know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But I loved the cinema. It was eh, [pause; 3 seconds] that was all there was as far as I was concerned anyway. I used to love the cinemas.

VB: Did you like? I mean obviously the films and the stars were an attraction.

AW: Oh, [rest inaudible] proves it, don't it? They were films that anybody could watch. Children or, you know. But it was, as I said before, I think it was a romantic age. 'Cause there was lots of couples like us, young and, you know, erm, we used to meet. We got used, 'cause we went to the same cinemas, or we passed them going to another one. And eh, we used to exchange views on. Probably they'd been to see one earlier in the week and we'd pass them on whether it was any good or not, put it that way. So of course, we used to exchange erm, views on the films we'd seen. And we used to say, oh you want to go to a cinema. It's 01:08:00a lovely film. You know, they'd tell you what it was. So we used to go. But erm, oh, I loved them. I was very upset when they closed them, I mean.

VB: Mhm.

AW: To me that was all, to me that was all there was really. I did try dancing but eh, I never sort of. They used to tell me I was too tensed up. You know, I couldn't relax, you know.

VB: Mhm.

AW: And erm. I could have kept it up because I had a niece that had got erm, erm, a degree for dancing, like. She passed out as a dancing teacher. She said, "Ooh, keep it up," she said, you know. But eh, I never did. 'Course when I got in with Vincent, as I said, he wasn't inclined that way, you know. So eh, unless you were both of the same mind, it's eh. But we were, as I say, we were quite happy. Oh, aye, I can sit and think of those days and think, see the films 01:09:00that's on now. Ooeugh.

VB: Mhm.

AW: No way.

VB: 'Cause it sounds like from what you were saying that you talked about the films quite a lot as well at the time.

AW: Mhm. You did, yeh. Yes, we exchanged and they used to pass on where they'd been. And we'd say, last night we went to see such a thing, eh, it was very good. Which most of the films were. I don't think there was any. I can't remember any, eh, what you would call erm, a bad film. Erm, but they were all more or less based on the same thing. The Follies and these roma-, they were all, it was a romantic era, as far as I was concerned. And there were weepies and romantic films. And, as I said, at that age, seventeen, and you're going out with a boy, there was nothing else. And of course, you was in love and of course, that enhanced the feeling. All these films were sort of made for you. 01:10:00You know you could see yourself in. Well I did anyway. Apart from growing old in them, of course. But erm, oh, it was a lovely era. I think people of my generation would more or less go along with that, you know. It was lovely. And of course, as I say, I carried on until they started closing and then that was it. Mhmm. It's a shame, really. 'Cause I don't think those kind of films'll ever come back. 'Cause the, the generation since them, there's all this technology. I think that's had a lot to do with it as well. Apart from eh, well, television killed them off really, but erm, there's one or two still open, but erm, there's 01:11:00one or two still open, but, erm. There's one near my friends in Withington. She goes now and again. I think that's the only one I can think of that's open.

VB: Mhm.

AW: But eh, all the others where we lived in [?] all closed and there was one on nearly every corner. There was loads of them.

VB: Mhm.

AW: But, erm, and that I think today they sort of think, Ooh, what a load of rubbish. Or, you know, they would be sarcastic I think, the younger ones. 'Cause they don't. Even when you see couples, to me, they're not. They don't seem to have the same, [pause; 2 seconds] what's the word? Erm, the same feeling that we had. I mean, eh, you know, they take a more, [pause; 3 seconds] erm, not a, no, a more offhand view, for want of a better word. They, I'm not saying some are 01:12:00not romantic, but, to me they don't appear to be as we were. I mean, they seem to look into each other's eyes and hold hands. I've seen old couples hold hands but not young, well, very rarely see a young one. And I look at these old people and I think, "Ooh! Isn't that nice, still holding hands at their age," you know. Which I think is nice, you know. But eh, no. Today I don't think they would appreciate the films that we saw.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Erm. 'Cause they're into this Rocky II and you know, Victor [sic] Stallone and all these eh, erm, science fiction, which I can't stand. So eh, it's an era that is, it is dead, definitely. Never come back. No. But I'm glad that I was [pause; 2 seconds] part of it, you know. I wouldn't have missed it for anything. 01:13:00Even though I always sometimes say, I wish I'd been born a bit later, you know, but. No, looking back, no. I'm quite happy with erm, what we ad then, you know. It was simple. It was a simple life. There wasn't many pleasures. But eh, somehow we, you know, we got through. There was no radio, no, well we didn't have one anyway. No radio, no television, 'cause television didn't come in till '36, did it? And erm, I think we had a radio. Mhm. I think we might have had a radio. But eh, as regards, erm, any other entertainment, no. You made your own. I mean the youngsters today, I don't know what they'd do without all these computers and games and what have you. 'Cause I know my grandsons have got them. 01:14:00But erm. [pause; 3 seconds] 'Course, as I say, they are trying to bring them back, I believe, you know. Tops and whips and skipping ropes and you name it. I can't see it cottoning on.

VB: [laughs] Did you used to play outside quite a bit then?

AW: Mhm. We used to play hopscotch. We used to mark one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, and eight, nine. And then you'd throw whatever it was and it landed on one of these squares and you used to just skip up until you got to the top. And we used to play skipping ropes. We used to play marbles. Erm. [pause; 5 seconds] We used to play I think it was called piggy. We used to whittle a piece 01:15:00of wood eh, you know, the end and hit it with a stick. Oh, there was a lot of things we had going for us then. Mhm. But I couldn't imagine them. And we used to put coloured paper on the top, on the top of the top. The silver paper how we used to colour it in, so that you twirled it round it was all colours.

VB: Ah.

AW: And of course, we had our bikes. Most of us had bikes. Which was another thing that I enjoyed was cycling 'cause there was no motorways, no, I mean, cycling was really. [pause; 2 seconds] I mean I couldn't, I couldn't ride in traffic today even if I had a bike. There's no way I could ride in traffic. I'd be too nervous, too much of it. But those days it was all country, country 01:16:00lanes, country roads and eh. I mean there were main roads naturally but, eh, there was no, I mean those that had cars were sort of what I suppose you'd term well off in those days, you know. There wasn't many cars on the road. Loads of cyclists. 'cause we all used to wave to one another whichever way, going. But when I go through some of the things I think, ooh, this was only an ordinary road, you know. When I go into Stretford we used to come through there to go home to Moss Side and I used to think, ooh, it was only an ordinary road, now it's the four-lane thing, you know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But eh, cycling and erm, the pictures was our, our venue in those days. I used to love cycling.

VB: Mhm. There's some lovely places, I'm sure.

AW: Mhm?

VB: There's some lovely places within cycling distance.

AW: Yeh, oh yeh. Well we used to go to erm, we used to frequent most places. We 01:17:00used to go to Pickmere Lake 'cause they had a good, 'course there was a lot of tearooms then, you know, where you could go and have a scone or whatever. 'Cause we used to go on the lake. You could either, a, a speedboat, you know. Erm, or a canoe, whichever you wanted to. Then we used to go eh, Dunham Massey to watch the deer. We used to have a, like, picnic out there. And eh, we used to go to Chester. Cycle to Chester. And we used to go in at the same tea place, you know. And erm, we tried going to Blackpool but we didn't realise how far it was then.

VB: I was going to say it's far away.

AW: So we turned back. When we realised we weren't going to make it in the day, you see. So that was, that wasn't very eh, you know, helpful. So we scotched 01:18:00that. But we did go to Chester a few times. And I mean more or less the same venues. Pickmere Lake and we went to Rudyard Lake once. And I was getting out of a canoe and I fell in the water.

VB: Mhm.

AW: The canoe moved. Ooh, it frightened me to death. I'm frightened to death of being in, I don't mind being on it--

VB: Mhm.

AW: But I don't like being. That's why I never go swimming. But it frightened me to death. I thought I was going to drown. So of course I had to go into. There was a big hotel called The Rudyard Hotel and eh, we, I thought, "I can't go home like this," you know. Anyway. One of the party, there was always a few. One of the party went to the hotel and erm, must have told them. So, anyway, they were very good. They said, well come in and we'll see what we can do for you. So he said, take your clothes off like, and I think they gave me something just to put on.

VB: Mhm.

AW: 'Cause we wore shorts and then you had cycling shoes, you know, and a top. And eh, so they said, well, you know, take them off. And I think they gave me something to put on and they dried them for me--

VB: Good.

AW: Which I thought was very nice 'cause I don't know what I'd have done otherwise.

VB: Mhm.

AW: But it was all an adventure, I suppose. We thought it was funny, afterwards, like, you know. At least they thought it was funny. They didn't go in the water!

VB: [laughs]

AW: But erm, other than that, it's, [pause; 2 seconds] it's, it's nice to look on, you know. I sit here many times. I think, they always say you shouldn't go back but, I mean you don't forget these. You can't wipe it out, can you? Whether it's in the past or not. I mean it's not hurting anybody, is it? They're nice times to remember. You was happy and that's all that mattered so. I mean, and 01:20:00when you're on your own, as I've been the last five years, I think you do tend, you've got to think of something. So you do tend to go back because I can smile about it and I can have a laugh at the silly things that we did. I mean what more do you want? [laughs]

VB: No, it sounds great. I like cycling myself too. It's a lovely way to have a day out. To get a bit of exercise. See a nice place. It's very--

AW: Mhm. Yeh. [pause; 3 seconds].Anything else?

VB: Well the only other thing I was wanting to ask is, when you're talking about the stars, at the time, did you see them as people that you came to know quite well? Or were they a million miles away up on the screen or?

AW: Oh, A think they were just eh. It was hero worship, you know. More often than not, it was hero worship. 'Cause there was really no way you could get to know them. I suppose like the young ones today. These idols. I mean, we didn't scream and shout like they do now but. No, I think now, as I say, if you're like I was, romantic, you dream that, you think, ooh well, I wish I was with him, or something like that. I did anyway. But no, it was hero worship. It's the only word for it. Erm. [pause; 2 seconds]. But it was, you know, 'cause I know they used to laugh at me. I think I was the only romantic one amongst them. They'd say, ooh, she's off again, you know.

VB: [Laughs].

AW: They'd say, "You're dreaming! You'll never get near him!" You know. [laughs] You say, "Well, you can dream, can't you?"

VB: [laughs] So did you dream about stars?

AW: [laughs] And when a saw Geo-, I thought, "Ooh! I wish I could dance with George Raft," you know. I used to dream, and think of him, in his arms and going round the floor, you know and ooh, God! [pause; 4 seconds] Who was the other one. He was erm. [pause; 3 seconds] There was another one I was fantasising about which is the only word for it. I don't know who it was now. [pause; 5 seconds] It might've been. I don't think it was Errol Flynn. He was too eh, whatsit, for me. Erm, I wanted a more, sort of serious star. I can't think who 01:23:00it was now. Mind you, I had my eye on all of them, as I said. But it was hero worship. You know, it was something, like everything else. Distance lends enchantment, they say, so. It was just a far-off dream. It was just, you know. You know there was no other way of getting heroes [something?] Hollywood.

VB: Yeh.

AW: [pause; 12 seconds] Happy days.

VB: Well just looking over your shoulders at these books as well. As you say, so many good-looking men and eh, beautiful women.

AW: Oh yeh. They were good-looking men.

VB: Yeh.

AW: No doubt about it. [pause; 4 seconds] I mean, really, it's never left me, really. 'Cause they say to me, eh, "Isn't it funny, you always go for men with 01:24:00moustaches." I said, "I couldn't tell you why." It, it's like trying to explain to somebody I cannot stand pink ice cream. [laughs]

VB: [Laughs].

AW: I cannot stand pink icing and yet I love the colour pink. And I've racked my brains out 'cause they always say these things are in your childhood.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But. And they say, "Ooh, you are funny!" I said, "No," I said. "Everybody has their own, you know, [next word?] like or whatever you like to call them," I said. "But I honestly don't know," I said, "But I cannot stand pink ice cream, pink icing on cakes." I said, "I can't explain it." I said, "I don't know." 01:25:00[pause; 4 seconds. It's just one of those things. It's erm, it's like when-- I cannot abide anybody giving me an untidy newspaper.

VB: [laughs]

AW: It's got to be. Because I am, in a way, a perfectionist. And I straighten every page, every. And no matter what I do, I'm not as bad now as I used to be when I was young. I was very, very. Oh, I was proud then. But, I mean as I say, I don't look for it now. But, everything's got to be, erm. [pause; 3 seconds] No, I am a perfectionist in some ways. And I cannot abide an untidy newspaper. Somebody gives me an untidy newspaper, I go mad. With all the pages. And I tell 01:26:00what else I do. And they noticed, you know, my friends. If I pick a book up, not a library book, because I don't like to know the end naturally, but, magazines and papers, I always start at the back page. So they said, so somebody said to me, "You must be Chinese." [laughs]Ih'm sure it's not only me that's got funny things, you know, but.

VB: Oh, no. Not at all.

AW: It's funny. It's a bit. It's something. [pause; 3 seconds] I just can't explain it. But erm, you know. They used to say, "Have you got anything else that's funny about you?" [laughs]

VB: Aw no. Well I understand newspapers 'cause I always have to be the first one to look at it. I don't like getting one that someone else has messed it up.

AW: No. Well that's what I said. But you know how some people say, "Here you are. I've finished with it." Or whatever. And it's, oh! I go mad!

VB: [laughs]

AW: I have to open it out and straighten the page. [laughs} Oh dear. So as I said, everybody must have some, you know, things that they don't like or they got a phobia about, you know. But erm, I don't know. I mean it'd be a dull world if we was all the same, wouldn't it.

VB: Oh yeh. Yeh.

AW: No, I say, when I go to the club, I say to them, erm, "Oh erm," when they're giving the tea out. We have tea and biscuits in the afternoon. And I say to whoever's serving, I say, "Ooh! I want a china cup and saucer." So they say, "Oh, well. You know what you can do." [laughs] "Have the same as everybody 01:28:00else!" [The devilment really?] They say, "Don't get her worked up." This particular person gets, you know. And she takes it all in good part. But they say, "You're stirring it up again", you know. "Oh," I said, "She understands me." I said, "I only do it for a bit of fun." So she says, "You get the same as everybody else!" [laughs]

VB: [laughs]

AW: How long are you here for?

VB: I'm here for another two weeks.

AW: Oh, are you?

VB: Yep.

AW: Oh, you are doing well, aren't you?

VB: Yeh.

AW: Well if I remember, before, don't know if you remember. You said you was gonna come see me on the nineteenth.

VB: Aw, right.

AW: And I was. I thought, that's funny, I've not heard from Valentina. But you said could you see me before you went home. Not that it matters. I'm just saying so. I thought. 'Cause you said how long you was here, you see.

VB: Right. Yeh.

AW: And I thought to myself, it's funny, she, you know, you've not got in touch.

VB: Yeh.

AW: And then of course when it got to the nineteenth it dawned on me that you must have gone home.

VB: Yeh.

AW: You know. So. Did you go home? You must've gone home?

VB: I did yes. I was away before that, yeh.

AW: Yeh. Not that it matters. I said I just thought, you know, it was funny, 'cause, you know. You know. I mean not that it would have mattered to get in touch 'cause it was all ready. No, when it got to the nineteenth I thought, "Oh." And I cross, 'cause I cross them out on my calendar and I thought, "Ooh, she must've gone home." You know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Then 'course when you phoned up and said you was at the University, you know. Uhuh. [laughs]

VB: Oh dear. I'm sorry about that.

AW: No. It don't matter, no. I just thought I'd mention. Not for any particular reason but I was worried. Well, I wasn't worried but it was just that it was funny. And I thought, well, it dawned on me then that you must have gone home, you know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: So, 'cause I thought you probably would have got in touch anyway, you know. No, it doesn't matter. I realised you'd gone home. 'Cause I thought you said you 01:30:00was here till the nineteenth, that's what I was going on.

VB: Yeh, yeh.

AW: So did you go back sooner than you?

VB: Erm, I think I went back about the sixteenth actually.

AW: Yeh. I thought you probably must've gone back before. Mhm. So. And where are you staying?

VB: I'm staying in the same place.

AW: Oh, in the students' residence. Ooh, lovely!

VB: Yeh.

AW: Are you on your own?

VB: Yes, at the time.

AW: Oh, yes, you're on your own. Oh well. And what d'you propose to do? This fortnight.

VB: Well, I'm going to see some of the other folk I saw last time.

AW: Oh, yeh. Very good.

VB: So that should be good.

AW: Are you doing all right are with your products, with your projects?

VB: Very much so.

AW: Mhm, lovely.

VB: I'm glad I had the chance to come back and, you know, continue our talk 'cause, erm, there was so much to talk about the first time.

AW: Yeh. I've enjoyed it. I've enjoyed talking to you. It's nice to talk about 01:31:00old times.

VB: Well I really appreciate it 'cause it's, you know, really helpful.

AW: Mhm. Like I say if you can eh. I know I helped my grandson Daniel. He's eh, seventeen in January. Very studious. And he wanted to know. He was doing a project at school about when we were young. What we had to eat. What we wore. So I said, "Oh, you'll have to give me some time to think about that." I said, "I can't think about it offhand." I said, "But I'll put it down as I think about it," you know. And he was thrilled to bits. In fact I think he got a good report about it at school.

[End of Side A]

[Start of Side B]

AW: I said, and you used to get a bowl of soup, a bowl of this soup when you walked into the school. That was your first thing. But when I told him about 01:32:00the, he said, Ooh! he said, fancy eating that!. I said, you wouldn't eat it today, I said. But we had no option.

VB: Yeah.

AW: And I said you couldn't choose your meals. You had what was put on the table, or do without! He said, did you, gran? I said, yes, I said, I'm telling you the truth. I said. They couldn't afford to do what they do today, when you hear mothers say, what d'you want for your tea? I said, we was never asked. I said, we had to have what was put in front of us. I said, and if you didn't eat it all, you didn't get a sweet! And you know they look at you like our Susan does, as I've probably told you when she tells me to go back about old times. And it's hard to believe. Well he looked at me as if-- No. I said, well, I'm telling you the truth! [laughs] I said, If you want to, you can probably get a book, you know, in the library. Ask for one in say, life in the twenties or 01:33:00something like that. Which it was, because I was born in what, 1919. So I said, erm, it being the twenties, I said, there was a General Strike in 1926 and I can just remember. I said but there was a lot of poverty, there was a lot of poor people. I said, it was a case of making the most of what you had. In those days, I said, people, most of them could cook. They were good cooks. My mother was a good cook. And I think most of them were in those days, you know.

VB: Mhm.

AW: You know. Not like. There's none of this, [pause; 2 seconds] prepacked food, you know. So it was a case of, I said. And you probably made a meal for it to last two or three days, you know. Anyway, I put it all down for him, and told him what kind of. I said, and erm, at one period weh ad to wear clogs. 'Cause my mother couldn't afford shoes. This was after my father left us.

VB: Mhm.

AW: And I hated it. I hated those clogs. They were good, they were good for your feet. But, to me it was degrading. I always felt that I was, [pause; 2 seconds] I mean I always have. That I should have eh, I was born for something better. I don't know where I got it from. And my eldest brother felt the same. The others didn't bother. But to us, to me and him, it was, in fact he wouldn't wear them. He made do with his old shoes.

VB: Yeh.

AW: And to me and our Charlie it was degrading--

VB: Uhuh.

AW: Because he used to say to me, we should, we. And looking at our pedigree, going back to 10-something, I don't think we were wrong. I said, I don't know what's gone wrong along the line. [laughs] I said, they were all wealthy people, I said. Anyway, but we always had that feeling, I don't know why, that we, 01:35:00[pause; 3 seconds] we shouldn't be in that situation.

VB: Yeh.

AW: We should have had something, born to something to better. Or, should I say, born higher than we were. And eh, we, it was only him, the others never bothered. And I told him, I said, we used to wear clogs, I said, and I hated. Erm, then we used to have, have to have a button hook to button. They weren't laces, they were erm, they were buttons and we had to have a button hook to pull them through. And he was really fascinated. I filled pages for him!

VB: [laughs]

AW: I said, you've no need to put them all, I said, you want to pick out what you think is more interesting, I said, and. Oh, he couldn't believe it. Anyway, he's doing Business Studies now.

VB: Mhm.

AW: He's got a job. He's left school.

VB: Uhuh.

AW: He wanted to be a lawyer but eh, his mother, said, it's a long business and you know, you might, you've got to be really dedicated to go in for these things. Anyway, erm, his father rang me up today to see how I was. Paul. And he was telling us, he's got a job eh, somewhere like, supermarkets, I think. And erm, he's going in for Business sSudies. And erm, I forget what the other one was. So I said, will he get a degree? So he said, what was it he said, I've never heard of it. Erm, I'm sure he said MBQ. MB something.

VB: Oh! Is it an MBA? It's like a Master of Business Administration.

AW: That's right. Perhaps he said MBA. You see, I'd never heard of it.

VB: Yes.

AW: I don't know what the degree is for business.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But he's always been very studious.

VB: I've heard of that, yeh.

AW: The other lad couldn't care less.

VB: Yeh.

AW: He's just the opposite. They had to erm, push him to do his homework. I said, but don't you worry, he'll make it. They usually do. I said, he's not [next word?], I said, but believe me. And I've never been wrong yet with my, you know, they said, Ooh!, he'll never make anything. I said, no, I said, you can't go by, when they're at school.

VB: Yes.

AW: But Daniel's always been studious. Erm, and he still is. So I said, very good. So he says, oh yes, he said, I'll get a degree. I know he said MB something.

VB: Mhm.

AW: 'Cause, you see, I've never heard of it, so. Erm. Anyway, I'm very glad he has. And when he finishes this course, erm, I believe there's a job waiting for him so,

VB: Oh, that's great.

AW: He'll probably be one of the lucky ones. There's a lot of students. I mean, 01:38:00there are, a lot of them are out of work.

VB: Yeh.

AW: I think it's so sad when they study for things and-- [pause; 2 seconds] I mean, I don't think it's wasted but, if you go through all that studying and then to realise that you, you know, it's a dead end. I know it would upset me if I'd have qualified for anything, you know.

VB: Right. Oh, that sounds good though.

AW: It's just one of those things.

VB: Yeah.

AW: But erm. I've got a neph-, erm, a nephew. He's a doctor. Lives in Salford. He's emigrating to Australia on the tenth of June.

VB: Mhm.

AW: They're having a farewell party on the third of June. His wife was a nursing sister at the same hospital. But he wants to do research into, eh, I think it's 01:39:00two diseases. I don't know whether one's cancer. I forget what the other one was. And he said there's no way he can get ahead here. He's ambitious, you see.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Anyway, he applied three years ago. Mind, they've got three children now. He applied three years ago. Anyway, he's decided to eh, you know, pack up and go over there. I mean he's only young. Erm, my sister-in-law said that erm, it's her grandson actually. His sister-in-law said that eh, he was leaving on the tenth but they were having a farewell party on the third. 'Cause she wanted me to stay the weekend. She lives in Salford. So I said I can't, I said, because of the cat.

VB: Mhm.

AW: I said there's nobody I can ask to keep her 'cause I don't really bother with her and I certainly wouldn't trust him next door. No way. Wouldn't trust him with my key. Anyway, I said no, I said. So she said, well, you can stay 01:40:00overnight. I said, I can stay overnight but I can leave. The trouble is I have to leave my little window open so she can come and out, you see.

VB: Yeh.

AW: And I don't really want to tell him I'm away. But anyway. Eh, I said, no I can't come for the weekend. AIsaid, I'll stay overnight till the Sunday.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Probably one of her daughters'll bring me home. So the last time I said, well you can drop me in Piccadilly. I can get a bus in Piccadilly. You know, it's about two years since I was there. But eh, I might get brought home. If not, I'll probably get brought to Piccadilly which is not bad.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Don't mind travelling from there. So eh, she said, Ooh, what a shame. I said, No, I said, I couldn't leave her, I said, the whole weekend. I said, even if I put her food out. 'Cause not only that, his cats come in. Well one of them does, pinches her food.

VB: Aw, yeh.

AW: So I said, if I hadn't have had the cat, I said, I would've, you know, 01:41:00would've liked to have stayed, you know. I don't see her very often. We keep in touch but erm. And then she said, erm, I think one of the others are going. Her son and his wife, they live in Tilsley which is near Adderton. They're going to [pause; 3 seconds] New Zealand, I think she said. Eh--

VB: Mhmm!

AW: To see whether they settle, you know. Well, if you're young, you can come back again and start again, can't you? But I mean I wouldn't dream of it. I couldn't live anywhere else, anyway. So, she said, that's two of them, I'm losing them all. She said, and then, if they settle down, whichever settles down in another country, well, the others might be going. So she was really, she's really upset at all this.

VB: Right, yeh.

AW: So I said, well, I said, they've got their own lives to live. We've had our life, I said. And they've got the opportunities we never had.

VB: Mhm.

AW: So, I said, there's nothing you can do about it. Mind you, I said, I would have been upset if ever my two had emigrated, you know. As it happens, they never thought of emigrating anyway. But our Susan did, when she was engaged.

VB: Yeh.

AW: She was going to live in Australia. Till somebody told her that there was all in these insects and great big things walking about, all legs.

VB: [laughs]

AW: And she said it's the country that uses the most, you know, air sprays and--

VB: Really?

AW: Oh, yeh. Australia, yeh. Very hot, isn't it? So she says, ooh, no I'm not going. So I thought, oh thank God for that, you know. Anyway, then they talked about it and then Peter decided that he didn't want to leave his mother and 01:43:00father. So, I was glad in a way but. Erm, I would have been upset if our Vincent had left, but as I say, he's never had any inclination. I mean he's always worked, so he's had no occasion to. He said if perhaps he'd ever come out of work for long periods he might have thought about it, but. He said, well it's a bit late to go now. I mean, he's fifty-five in August. I said, it's a bit dodgy for you. I said not everybody can settle.

VB: Mhm.

AW: I said, and it's all right when you're young. You can come back and start again. I said, but it's a bit dodgy at your age. You know, I wouldn't risk it. So, he said, oh well, you could come over. I said, no thank you! I said I'm quite happy where I am. I said, I couldn't adapt myself anywhere else.

VB: Mhm.

AW: I said, perhaps Wales. I always wanted to retire to Wales, I don't know why, but. Anyway, it didn't come off. I said no, I said, I don't mind keeping in the 01:44:00United Kingdom, I said, but you can keep your Australia.

VB: Yeh.

AW: But I would like to go to Canada. I don't know why. I don't know why. I would like to go to Canada. But I don't suppose it'll come off, so.

VB: Mhm.

AW: Anyway. What you don't do, you don't, I mean. Oh no, I couldn't eh. In fact, to be quite honest, it takes me all my time to stay overnight anywhere. 'Cause I like my own bed.

VB: Yeh.

AW: And not only that, when I go to this sister-in-law, when I want to come back early the next day with having a cat, more or less, she tells all. Well, mind you the family would be at the party but if not, she rings them round and they all come, you know--

VB: Aw.

AW: It annoys me in a way. I can't get away. The don't seem to realise that eh, 01:45:00they don't sort of consider that, you know. And that's the only fault I've got. I can't get away and it's. I'd like to say, you know, just say, right well I'm going now. And get the bus. But I mean, there's loads of buses. The best if it's Saturday, I don't know about Sunday.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Sunday's a bit dodgy. Anyway, there must be buses. But that's the only fault. And then I finish up coming home in the afternoon or something like that.

VB: Yeh.

AW: They sort of want to keep me there.

VB: Ah, I know what you mean.

AW: And I don't like that. I like to come home when I want to come home, you know. And I'm going to be firm this time. And then you see, if I'm getting a lift , I've no option, have I? You know.

VB: Yeh.

AW: It's either the inconvenience of the buses, which doesn't bother me. Or, you see, I'm obligated to wait their time. To come home in the car which--

VB: Yeh.

AW: And I don't like that. I'd rather say, well, right I'll get a bus to town and--

VB: Yeh. I know what you mean.

AW: Come home, you know. Anyway, I'm going to see how the land lies and if eh, [pause; 3 seconds] insist I'm coming home. I've got the cat to see to which is no lie. But eh, I know the last time I stayed it was in the winter, it must be a couple of years ago. And eh, 'course she's got a three-bedroomed house. Well, you see, the bedrooms are not used, you see, 'cause all the family's married. They live near to. Oh, and it was freezing cold, it was bitter cold outside. And I'd been to my daughter's 'cause she perms my hair every three months, Susan. And I said to Joan, I'll drop off. Well, it was pour-! Ooh, I could've kicked myself after. It was pouring down in rain. It was bitter cold, it was in the 01:47:00November. And I was in two minds whether to stay on the bus and come home. I only wish I had done. Anyway, I got off the bus and it was a good walk from the bus stop. I had my umbrella. And I could have cursed. Anyway, I got there and she made me a drink and that, you know. And I got a choice, you see. She's got two bedrooms. She's got a lovely home. And I had a choice, so I generally switch bedrooms when I go. 'Cause she's in the main bedroom. I did sleep with her, 'cause she's got a double bed, you see.

VB: Mhm.

AW: But eh, I didn't like that. I slept on ye own that long, but, you know. So she said, well, you can have a room of your own. The bed was freezing. Oh, 'cause they weren't aired. They're not aired, you see.

VB: Of course, if there's no one there.

AW: There's plenty of bedding on, don't get me wrong. She's still got the 01:48:00old-fashioned, woollen blankets.

VB: Yeh.

AW: The white ones that you bought years ago, that we had when we got married. With the stripes. But lovely, you know. And it was up against the window, and there was a draught from the window. Well, it was freezing, I couldn't! And if I've got cold feet, I suffer with cold feet, you know. And if I, no matter how warm my body is, I cannot sleep if my feet are cold. That's why I wear bedsocks in the winter.

VB: Ah.

AW: If anybody saw me going to bed it'd put a man off anyway.

VB: [laughs]

AW: If I had one, it would put him off. And my bedsocks and my long nightie. [laughs] And I thought, 'course I couldn't get warm. My feet were freezing. And I didn't have any socks with me, anyway. I had trousers on. But I didn't have any, I had boots on. I don't normally wear socks under boots on unless it's very cold. D'you know, I'd a horrible night. And I thought, I only wish I'd stopped 01:49:00on. I'd have been better off staying on the bus, and waiting for another bus.

VB: Right.

AW: I thought, I'm not falling for that again. Anyway, I got over that. But, erm, I was telling our Sue and she said, erm, and apart from that the bus was late where she lives. I think we waited an hour, so of course that made it late as well. And it was raining, as I say. I thought, Ooh, I'm a right Jonah, me. So, anyway, she says, Ooh, if it doesn't come mum, she said, you'll have to come back and. 'Cause she used to have the spare bedroom done up whilst Ian was little. So I'd the spare bedroom on my own. But she, she uses it. He's gone in the other room now. The other big bedroom. So, she's put all her junk in there, you know, whatever you do, you know. So, I said, 'cause she's got a three-seater 01:50:00settee. So, I said, I'll sleep on the settee, I said. You don't expect me to get in with Peter, do you? Anyway, [laughs] Peter looked at me. He's a bit, you know. I said [next word?] laughing, but he didn't think it was funny. But anyway. So I said, eh, well, I said, I'd rather do that, I said, than go home in this. Anyway, apparently the bus that should've come broke down. Well the depot's at the next stop.

VB: Yeh.

AW: Anyway, they said there was one on its way. Anyway, it came an hour late and erm, it was still chucking it down. I thought, oh, I wish to God I had gone home. Anyway, I said to our Susan, I'm not doing it again, I said. Anyway, the last erm, couple of times she's been able to do it here at home. 'Cause her husband had a day off so he'd be able to bring her down, you see. His mother 01:51:00lives at Wilmslow so he drops her here. Not the last time. Not the last time I went. I had to go down to have it done. But eh, a couple of times, she says come here, she'll do it for me. I says, well I'm getting past travelling really, you know. Anyway, but I said to her, that's the last time I ever go, I said. I was freezing. I said, wouldn't you have thought she'd have put a hot water bottle in for me, or something? Knowing it was not aired. 'Cause, as I say, nobody stays, you see. Anyway, the son's, her youngest son's buying the house. And eh, she's to stay in it for three years. Anyway, she says, the three years is up.

VB: Mhm.

AW: So, she says, she's putting down for sheltered accommodation. 'Cause she's ridden with arthritis.

VB: Aw.

AW: She's only seventy-three, seventy [pause; 2 seconds] two, I think. So, eh, seventy-two or seventy-three. And eh, so she said, erm. Anyway, she said, eh, 01:52:00when he's buying the house. They'd no children, they don't want any children. Eh, he's buying his house in Tilsley. So he said, eh, he'll probably rent that out. I should imagine they can't very well leave it empty, can they? So she said, I don't know what arrangements he's going to make but he'll have to do something with his house. So, whether I can stay on here.

VB: Mhm.

AW: I think he said he's only going for a couple of years. See what it's like. So, he must be coming back. Well he'd have to come back to see to his property, anyway. So Joan said, I'm up the wall at the moment. I don't know what he's doing! So, I said, I don't know anything about private property, I said, so but he'll have to. So she said, and then, eh, you know, 'cause he'll probably want 01:53:00to sell. He'll keep the one his mother's in and sell the other one. So she said, she'll have to move out. But he pays the mortgage but she has to pay the bills and that, you know.

VB: Mhm.

AW: But, erm.

VB: Sounds like a bit of a trouble though it's--

[End of Interview]